To think most marriages have elements of LTB in them

[AdamRyan]

In my (finished) marriage there was quite a lot of behaviour I put up with, that would have mumsnet saying "LTB!"

Talking to friends, family there seems to be a lot of it about in their marriages too. (Not gender specific, things like financial control, secret drinking, debts, cocklodging, contempt, verbal abuse etc etc)

I think most marriages/long relationships have elements of LTB behaviour- but I don’t know if my perspective is warped.

Putting on voting to allow people to be semi anonymous, as I expect the comments to be full of very happily married types saying IABU

What is cocklodging?

I hate this ‘throwaway generation’ labels bandied around.

No one throws away a relationship with time, children and finances are deeply enmeshed.

There is also massive stigma around being a single divorced woman.

I wish women had the resources to stay in or leave relationships.

Single mothers suffer a great deal, especially ones who are in low paid jobs having to work around childcare. It’s hard.

If women had the support to leave abusive relationships, and the list in the OP is abuse. Maybe we wouldn’t have so many women being murdered by their intimate partners.

I don't know anyone who I'd say LTB to.

No relationship is perfect, including mine but whatever we go through I never feel unloved. Even in a middle of an argument.

And this is what makes it different to the B’s I’ve been before - they genuinely could make me feel unloved, sad, and worthless.

My DH can piss me off massively but I can always feel that he loves me & I love him, and it’s worth to stick around the hard times. With my Ex I often questioned myself “what’s the point?”. And there was none!

@Sleepytimebear

I totally agree. I wouldn't want to be in any of my friends' marriages, they all look like they have issues and they would all say that they are happily married and there is no abuse (i might disagree). I thought my marriage was happy and although my husband did a lot of the things you list I just didn't recognise it as abuse. People even told me they thought he was abusing me and I just thought they had got the wrong end of the stick. It was only when I made the decision to leave that I realised what his behaviour had been. For those that have been in abusive relationships I think you are now so alert to red flags (hence posters giving LTB advice for any indiscretion!) but those who haven't been through it might not see where these red flags can lead. I also think if you are being abused you've been conditioned over years - your abuser isn't telling you he is financially abusing you or controlling, he's been manipulating you over years to accept whatever it is he wants. It isnt always obvious to you that something is really wrong. I experienced a lot of cognitive dissonance trying to make sense of things my husband did or said when he was at the same time telling me he loved me etc.

Yes! Thank you I think I still have elements of cognitive dissonance, where I slip back into "it wasn't that bad" (verbally and sexually abusive husband, it WAS that bad) which probably prompted my post.

To be honest Leave the Bastard could easily be Leave the Bitch on a male dominated forum - I very much doubt any of our own behaviour in a marriage is whiter than white just by virtue of the fact we are women

Most of us at some point have exhibited controlling and emotionally abusive behaviour we just don't like to admit it and see it as something only men do in a relationship

I think no marriage or partnership is perfect. Compromise and a realistic view of the world and other people are necessary for a lasting relationship, and one person's LTB is another person's "not actually worth leaving over".

Whether or not someone leaves isn't always down to finances, either. There are societal and cultural pressures, staying together for the kids, still loving the other person despite the problems, wanting to believe that things will improve, dreading the logistics of splitting, and more reasons besides. Splitting doesn't always result in a happier life, even if the relationship has flaws.

I consider myself very happily married and still very much in love with DH after 30 years together. But, of course there's been the occasional dark time and we used to row like cat & dog at times - just part of being in a passionate relationship, really.

DH is very focused, very driven and therefore very successful. But it also means he can sometimes be selfish and rather high handed arrogant - I remind him that I'm 'not a member of staff' He's still a little rough around the edges compared to my very prissy, privately educated upbringing - but he's solid gold underneath. He would do anything for our DDs and me and is a very loyal friend.

When I was diagnosed with breast cancer a couple of years ago he was an absolute hero - holding my hand at every single appointment. He didn't say much but there were times when he simply picked me up and carried me.

I think those couples who never, ever have a cross word are actually rather indifferent to each other. The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.

things like financial control, secret drinking, debts, cocklodging, contempt, verbal abuse etc etc)

No, I don't think people say LTB too often on here. The list in the OP is really sad - imagine living every day with someone who felt contempt for you. Debts - depends. Secret drinking - are we talking alcoholism? Verbal or financial abuse - WTF, of course you should leave!

Some problems in marriages might be down to personality clashes, like an introvert and an extrovert negotiating their social lives together. Frequency of sex, or clashes with the MIL - these aren't LTB moments if handled well between 2 people who love and respect each other.

But no, no woman should put up with cocklodging, or verbal abuse or a man who refuses to pull his weight at home.

Being ABLE to leave is of course another issue. But every woman should know that the behaviour in the OP is LTB stuff.

I can honestly say that in more than 2 decades, dp has never raised any red flags. Certainly our relationship isn't perfect and has many problems some might find intolerable. But that's down to personal preference, not acceptance of abuse or financial control.

I accept my partners flaws. But there is no abuse and that would obviously be different. I like to think he accepts my flaws too! Sometimes on here people are very quick to get enraged at something I’d either find hilarious or shrug my shoulders at. Then out comes the slur of ‘cool wife’. I mean, I’m far from fucking cool, come meet me!

There’s a big culture in my workplace of this whole ‘ohhhh my goddd I had to spend the full weekend with Dh’ ‘oh never ahahhaha did you not kill him?’ ‘Nearly I had to send him to his mums cos he was pissing me off soooo bad’
I just sit there and think what the fuck why is everyone still with these people that piss them off so bad?! I can’t bloody wait til the weekends to do fun things with my partner! Very confusing.