To not understand why people are driving to Poland?

[Tgbiyr]

Genuinely interested in whether I’m missing something.

I have a friend on Facebook who’s driving part of a convoy of goods for Ukrainian refugees from the UK to Poland. Toiletries, clothes etc. He asked people to donate goods, and now he’s asking people to donate towards fuel costs.

I cannot understand why anyone is doing this. Would it not be better to donate to the Polish charities supporting the refugees than transport lorries full of goods thousands of miles? Or ask for donations of goods to support refugees who come to Britain? What am I missing?

AIBU to think that driving lorries from the UK to Poland isn’t helpful, and the money would be better spent being directly donated to organisations in Poland?

@MorrisZapp

Whatever you do, stay off Martin Roberts twitter 😬😬😬

I wish I had taken your advice!

I rather like the idea of Nick Knowles doing rebuilding Ukraine effort!

BTW

1.donated cash to DEC appeal (giftaided and matchfunded)
2.;Donated to Jewish Relief to support Rabbi Alex Duchovny who offered shelter to all in his Synagogue basement in Kyiv and was looking after housebound people aged 101 and 104 so they had food water and medical supplies. Our Rabbi had also been stuck in Kyiv and suggested this fund, she is safely in Moldova now.

1. Went to our local Ukrainian Federation club, took a box of shower gel, sanpro and vitamins and made a cash donation towards the fuel. Lorry commissioned /donated by Ukrainian haulier who had also paid for Ukrainian drivers to return filling up their empty trucks with items The drivers fuel cards stopped working when war broke out and they were lodging with 2/3rd generation Ukrainian families here. I understand the inefficiency of goods transport but it is also important for people to feel agency, to stand in solidarity and bear witness to the atrocities.

Yes the GoFundMes are annoyingly egocentric. However they are easy to sort out and easy to donate to.

1. Am a member of a 500 funding circle (500 people donate £1 a week) and an aid worker nominated some Danish humanitarian workers who live in Ukraine to receive £500 for fuel so they can get families out to Romania & Moldova.

Another reason to give money is that charities can spend it locally in Poland, Ukraine and neighbouring countries, therefore investing in local economies which in turn generates money that go back into building infrastructure and creating jobs for those who will now desperately need employment.

@Qc16
Because some medicines that are common here might be prescription only abroad. Or you might need to have special authorisation and proper accountability to transport drugs abroad etc. But if they have requested them, that’s another matter and I’ll stand corrected. I was only pondering the matter.

I was behind a woman at the tills in M&S homeware department with a trolley load of stuff. She was telling the cashier it was for Ukrainian crisis. Struck me that M&S shareholders were doing quite well out of it. Consider the cost of manufacture of fleecy blankets versus retail price (plus transport and sorting costs). It doesn't stack up on a logical level. However this is heart over head stuff.

I think it comes down to people not being informed so they don’t know that their efforts or donation is actually counterproductive and not welcome (see Polish Government announcement) - it’s also on the informed to take responsibility to speak up in the office and educate others of the alternatives and the facts rather than be embarrassed about pissing on their well intentioned chips.

Also who’s needs are being met here? The distress and knee jerk emotional salve of the giver or maximising the efficiency and impact for the victims and aid workers. How demoralising for volunteers to be lumbered with sifting through shit and burning other peoples cast offs from thousands of miles away on the borders when they could be comforting, feeding and clothing the refugees in their sight.

@ESGdance

I think it comes down to people not being informed so they don’t know that their efforts or donation is actually counterproductive and not welcome (see Polish Government announcement) - it’s also on the informed to take responsibility to speak up in the office and educate others of the alternatives and the facts rather than be embarrassed about pissing on their well intentioned chips.

Also who’s needs are being met here? The distress and knee jerk emotional salve of the giver or maximising the efficiency and impact for the victims and aid workers. How demoralising for volunteers to be lumbered with sifting through shit and burning other peoples cast offs from thousands of miles away on the borders when they could be comforting, feeding and clothing the refugees in their sight.

The Polish Government announcement only applied to the Polish/Ukraine border not to other centres in Poland and of course not to Moldova, Romania or Ukraine itself.

@Qc16 - the point is to listen to the people on the ground and the experts who have coordinated relief to humanitarian disasters at scale for decades and take their lead to respond effectively and efficiently to what they need right there and how it should be delivered rather than assume what’s needed and risk efforts wasted and worse counterproductive. Anyone would be shocked and disappointed if they were unaware that their efforts were detrimental or misguided. This is not to be demoralising on peoples deep hearted intent.

Depends on arrangements. I'm very much in the donate money camp and don't really understand how sending goods, borrowing vans and having to raise, in this case, £1200 for fuel, is worth it.

But, the efforts I'm talking about above have been welcomed with open arms by a charity in Poland, where 12 van loads containing a huge range of donated items were taken. The same group have been asked to return next week with more, the proviso being a more select list of items ( no more adult clothing but more dried foods and medical supplies for example).
The charity in Poland is distributing this to refugees in Poland and directly into Ukraine.

I rather like the idea of Nick Knowles doing rebuilding Ukraine effort! I can't stand Nick Knowles but yes actually if he did a DIY SOS in Poland building an emergency shelter and showing what actually went on maybe people would donate more sensibly

I think people just feel helpless and want to do something. I've donated money because it will stretch much further in Poland and they can buy what they need. If you don't have money to give and are desperate to help I could see the appeal of donating supplies you have instead. It's similar with food banks. I set up a standing order for £20 a month but to someone else, a couple of tins might be all they can do. They'd feel silly setting up a standing order for 80p but if 50 people are donating a couple of tins each, it soon adds up.

[quote ESGdance]@Qc16 - the point is to listen to the people on the ground and the experts who have coordinated relief to humanitarian disasters at scale for decades and take their lead to respond effectively and efficiently to what they need right there and how it should be delivered rather than assume what’s needed and risk efforts wasted and worse counterproductive. Anyone would be shocked and disappointed if they were unaware that their efforts were detrimental or misguided. This is not to be demoralising on peoples deep hearted intent.[/quote]
Yeah, it reminds me of this scene from Castaway when Chuck Noland comes back to US and they throw him a welcome party and serve lobster and other seafood.

Not only do I agree tht we should not unnecessarily travel to that area, (COVID and over crowding), where the hell do people think they re going to sleep? They have enough of a job accommodating the refugees. It’s madness.

You are absolutely right. The best thing people can do is donate cash to the DEC and thereby increase the value of their donation by the government matched funding and GiftAid.

@MadMadMadamMim

Ridiculous.

As ridiculous as the 6th forms who get students to pay thousands of pounds per head to go off and 'build' an orphanage/well/school somewhere in a 3rd world country. It's a jaunt for well off kids and if they genuinely cared they'd donate the money and pay for local - proper- builders to be employed to do this. Not teenage girls with no skills. Apparently it's an amazing life experience to go and patronise poor people in a poverty stricken country.

Oh god, don't get me started on this sort of thing! It's about 90% for the benefit of the (almost always middle-class and white) teenage participants. I know it's great to build links and a relationship between very different parts of the world and I'm not dissing that part of it, but I thought the 'white saviour' model of aid had gone off ages ago. Why would some kids who go out knowing nothing and get taught how to make mudbrick construction by the locals (who could presumably do it quicker and more efficiently themselves) be 'useful'? Oh sure, they get a heartwarming insight into how little other people have but how joyful and simple their lives are, then they come back and put it on their CVs. There's a local initiative that does this almost yearly and I know for a fact that some of the participants are ONLY doing it because they think it'll look good on their university and job applications.

I do often wonder about how the people in this fairly remote village somewhere in sub-Saharan Africa (naming no countries) feel about the annual arrival of privileged white kids who spend a week or so being taught how to build, play football with their kids, and then disappear again.

I totally agree with you. I gave money to our local Rotary club. They have Rotary clubs in Poland so they are sending the money to them. I think it’s very wasteful spending so much money on fuel to drive to Poland. They have plenty of shops in Poland!

Having driven to Poland at Christmas to visit relatives, I can safely say that driving a horse box to Poland will cost more in fuel than the contents are likely to be worth, (unless you are delivering horses). Money is more effective but it's essential that the charity it goes to is reputable, as so much charity money around the world seems to pay for CEOs luxury cars and villas.

It's not that straightforward. There are several crossing points that the big charities don't reach. I have family who live close to one of these. They regularly drive to this crossing point, pick up refugees and bring them back to their home to give them a rest before they move on - most of them have friends or family they want to link up with. But the charities don't operate here, so they are very grateful for donations of toiletries, nappies, baby care stuff etc. My nephew's wife told me that they had women crossing with babies who hadn't been properly changed or cleaned for days and who were red raw. They're very grateful for these goods.

@DrManhattan

I think some people just can't sit there and do nothing. Giving money to charity isn't enough. They want to do something tangible and real.

This is the problem. They are making about them, not the people who need the support. It's self-indulgence.

I don’t get it at all, surely it’s just adding to the chaos. If you have skills that people need, and that potentially Poland can’t provide, fair enough but not sure what sort of skills that would be.

Poland is taking the brunt of this, they have supermarkets, I guess there are no supply chain issues in Poland, surely it’s better to send money and buy in the local supermarkets/suppliers and then we are helping Poland by injecting cash into the economy. If it’s specialist equipment that Poland doesn’t have again fair enough, but again not sure what sort of equipment that would be,

My friend is involved in a refugee charity and she says the amount of useless stuff they get donated is nauseating. "Care packages" with useless clothes and cheap food.

One of the concerning things about these have a go heroes is the problem of safeguarding. War always brings out traffickers and people who will exploit women & children for sex. These 1000s of completely unaccountable men in vans really concern me. Obviously most of them won't be there to exploig the situation but some will. It will be down to the authorities and charities on the ground (who are accountable) to protect vulnerable women and children. They shouldn't have this extra problem to deal with.

@Technonan

It's not that straightforward. There are several crossing points that the big charities don't reach. I have family who live close to one of these. They regularly drive to this crossing point, pick up refugees and bring them back to their home to give them a rest before they move on - most of them have friends or family they want to link up with. But the charities don't operate here, so they are very grateful for donations of toiletries, nappies, baby care stuff etc. My nephew's wife told me that they had women crossing with babies who hadn't been properly changed or cleaned for days and who were red raw. They're very grateful for these goods.

This is both heartwarming and tragic. However it would still be quicker and cheaper to send money to the people on the ground to buy supplies locally than waste time and money driving expensive products from the UK for days with £££ wasted on fuel and damaging the environment.

People just need to know how they can best make an immediate, effective and efficient impact for the benefit of the families and children in immediate and desperate need.

I think contributing to a charity is more helpful. The amount one vehicle can take,whilst bloking the already crowded conditions, is going to make minimal impact. I know colleagues who are doing similar. I guess people feel powerless to help and want to reach out.