to be concerned about Ukranian refugees entering the country in large numbers?

[MaMaLa321]

I think that we have done the right thing, as a country, to allow Ukranian refugees to enter the UK. But does anyone else have concerns about how this will pan out?
For a start, we've spent 2 years in Lockdown, but the vaccination rate for Ukranians (for double vaccination) is only 34%.
What's the effect on our Social Services going to be?
FWIW, we have applied to house a refugee. It's just that I'm worried about the knock-on effects.
Also, will many Ukranians want to come here?

YABFU

[quote Onionpatch]@forinborin - i assumed they were lone parents because the men are not allowed to leave ukraine.

I dont think that its a cultural thing that lone parents in britain dont want to work full time, i think its a cost and availability of childcare thing in many cases. So i think the women from ukraine will hit the exact same hurdles resident uk women hit but without the potential of relatives to help with childcare.[/quote]
But they aren't lone parents, in the same way as a woman with a husband who works abroad / on a rig is not a lone parent.
I guess we'll see how it turns out.There are no relatives, but there are also much more stronger social ties in terms of helping each other with things like childcare and elderly care.

@Milomonster

I think it’s a great thing. This country has never functioned with migrants and never will. Companies are offering jobs to them to fill the 10s of thousands of vacancies that Brits are too lazy/proud to do. Who cleans your streets and offices? Who picks fruit? They aren’t here to sponge off the system, and will want to lead a dignified life by working, I imagine.

Another one. Why on earth do you think a Ukrainian software developer would want to come here and pick fruit? If these were French people fleeing a German invasion would you also automatically assume they'll be coming here to sweep and pick fruit? Or is it because Ukrainians are Eastern European.

The amount of you who are actually SO bloody racist while thinking they are Being Kind blows my mind.

@ThisIsGroundControl

That does not prevent them from working though. All enquiries I have seen so far were from women who are very eager to work.

I am sure they are but the reality of wanting to work and being able to with small children isn't the same

But many of them have already worked before, as a rule.

I can tell you who is coming through my personal connections, as an anecdote - a vet and a software developer. Both have small children (under school age), both worked from the time their children were 6 months, or thereabouts. The vet is not planning to work straight away (she is quite optimistic that it all will resolve quite soon, and anyway she has to sit an equivalence exam in order for her qualifications to be accepted - she's not too keen on fruit picking for some reason), but she has decent savings and her husband will financially support her and the child as well remotely.

The programmer lady already has projects she's been working on and earning money, and totally not awful money even by the UK standard.

They are not atypical. People who come to the UK would have to actively prefer it for some reason compared to other European countries.

Why on earth do you think a Ukrainian software developer would want to come here and pick fruit? If these were French people fleeing a German invasion would you also automatically assume they'll be coming here to sweep and pick fruit? Or is it because Ukrainians are Eastern European.

Absolutely agree with this.
I keep seeing posts on other threads as well, saying Ukranians will want rural accommodation so they can find agricultural work .

@forinborin good to hear the men are able to work and can still send money. That wasnt my image of life in ukraine now. I take onboard that a husband in a warzone doesnt make you a lone parent if he is still able to phone and send money - although i dont think he is going to be much use for sharing nursery drop off and pick ups ...

A lot of women whose husband work abroad struggle to work full time too due to logistics of childcare availability matching the work available.

I also dont know what salaries are like to know if 300 euro is comparable in relation to salaries - but my nursery fees were 1.8k

@TeloMere

Why on earth do you think a Ukrainian software developer would want to come here and pick fruit? If these were French people fleeing a German invasion would you also automatically assume they'll be coming here to sweep and pick fruit? Or is it because Ukrainians are Eastern European.

Absolutely agree with this.
I keep seeing posts on other threads as well, saying Ukranians will want rural accommodation so they can find agricultural work .

It’s so odd. And really is a prejudice that’s needs to go

This is going to sound petty and the example is indeed petty - but it’s indicative of what is going on with our basic services.

Yesterday I tried to get a hygienist appointment and was told the wait is 3 months. Now, I am quite well aware that it isn’t going to kill me and it is extremely petty - BUT - this is the state that our basic services are in. They are maxed out and have no chance of even meeting the current demand, without even more people. That was yesterday but a few years ago…

My mum has cancer and had a mastectomy. Went in 8/9am for surgery. Operated on 12 hours later. The poor surgeon had done several ops back to back. The hospital had no bed when she was finished. She was on a trolley being moved a couple of times during the night post surgery to wherever there was staff. I put her in a wheelchair and took her home 12 hours after surgery, dragged a bed downstairs in my house to nurse her myself. The hospital had NOTHING for her. No bed no doctor. When the cancer came back, the test results were lost for 5 months. This country is in crisis and anyone stating that obvious fact is treated as a racist xenophobe.

FGS we can’t even run bin collections effectively!

I was on the council website looking at a secondary school and it received 4 times as many applications as there were places. In 2021.

We are utterly fucked. And it’s nothing whatsoever to do with xenophobia.

The Ukrainians are not economic migrants. They are refugees. At the end of all this they will want to go back to Ukraine to their friends and families. In the meantime, yes - they will add to the problem with the health service, housing, schooling etc. But that may prove to be the impetus our government needs to address the shocking lack of investment in these areas. And it may also force the government to review our taxation systems etc so that the rich in our country will contribute more to our society. As high rate tax payers, we have no issue with this.

[quote Onionpatch]@forinborin good to hear the men are able to work and can still send money. That wasnt my image of life in ukraine now. I take onboard that a husband in a warzone doesnt make you a lone parent if he is still able to phone and send money - although i dont think he is going to be much use for sharing nursery drop off and pick ups ...

A lot of women whose husband work abroad struggle to work full time too due to logistics of childcare availability matching the work available.

I also dont know what salaries are like to know if 300 euro is comparable in relation to salaries - but my nursery fees were 1.8k[/quote]
Some men are, some aren't. Remember, you are seeing the footage that was specifically selected for the news, but - obviously the front line cities excluded - there are some glimpses of the normal life too here and there. And that is how it should be.

Western Ukraine operates almost in a BAU mode, apart from the humanitarian crisis, of course. There were a couple of cafes open last weekend in Kyiv in some places (and for one of my friends, a very basic cappucino felt like a magic drink and a promise that a normal, boring life will return one day).

300 euros will probably be around a third of an average salary.

I know I am trying to paint a picture that is probably too rosy, I am just quite upset by this narrative that is pushed in every thread on this topic that Ukrainian refugees are some sort of mute hillbillies who will bring only crime and filth with them, and will crowd out GP surgeries and schools. And their opponents - "but, they can be an asset, how about we offer them fruit picking and street sweeping! And they must be great at farming as Ukraine is the breadbasket of the world!"

@TeloMere

Why on earth do you think a Ukrainian software developer would want to come here and pick fruit? If these were French people fleeing a German invasion would you also automatically assume they'll be coming here to sweep and pick fruit? Or is it because Ukrainians are Eastern European.

Absolutely agree with this.
I keep seeing posts on other threads as well, saying Ukranians will want rural accommodation so they can find agricultural work .

I can sort of see your point.

Nothing wrong with sweeping and picking fruit though, even if you are a software developer.

These threads always go the same way. Many people will have similar concerns to op. It’s a mistake to dismiss them simply because we don’t feel the same way. These things need to be discussed openly or they feed resentment.

I

Awful to see so many miserable, narcissistic, self centred posts on Mumsnet about this tragedy. Millions of women and children forced out of their homes, their families and all the security they have known by a frankly evil warmonger, yet posters on Mumsnet post threads repeatedly post threads trying to turn our collective response into self indulgent narratives about racism, covid and whether we have enough social workers.
Some people need to take a long hard look at themselves and their values.

Some extra labour is exactly what this country needs. Aside from the fact that we should welcome these people with open arms as doing the right thing (not least as the West has a lot to answer for turning a blind eye/empowering Putin for so long) this extra labour force is a big positive.

Let's hope that we in the UK never have too seek refuge in Europe. I don't think we will be very welcome anywhere.

@forinborin - yes that is upsetting. I know there is a vet shortage so your acquaintance should find work easily.

My only point was it wasnt unreasonable to think refugees might want part time work for the same reasons 'local' people do. There was a bit of scorn that british women dont work part time so why would refugees need to but the reality is a lot do due to logistics and expense but if that isnt an issue for some people, fantastic.

@DrManhattan

Let's hope that we in the UK never have too seek refuge in Europe. I don't think we will be very welcome anywhere.

Haven’t over 50,000 signed up?

Probably still going up. Many people do want to do this, don’t you think

I understand the people complaining about getting doctors appointments etc. Its easy for other people to dismiss unless they have had experience of the NHS and seeing loved ones suffer because they cannot get treatment. At the end of the day though as a country we have to do the right thing. It’s that simple. If Poland, Moldova and Romania can do it so can we.

@marshabradyo
That's not what my comment is about.

I'm sickened today that all the major Care Associations are debating how best to attract the Ukranians to be care workers. Another example of the fat cats trying to get vulnerable people to work on zero hours contracts for peanuts. These people will be arriving having experienced trauma, homeless and missing their partners and Care Home bosses are thinking Yippee, a good source of cheap labour for us. Utterly disgusting that once again we want those from abroad to do the work where the pay and conditions are so poor they do not attract applicants here.

@jytdtysrht

This is going to sound petty and the example is indeed petty - but it’s indicative of what is going on with our basic services.

Yesterday I tried to get a hygienist appointment and was told the wait is 3 months. Now, I am quite well aware that it isn’t going to kill me and it is extremely petty - BUT - this is the state that our basic services are in. They are maxed out and have no chance of even meeting the current demand, without even more people. That was yesterday but a few years ago…

My mum has cancer and had a mastectomy. Went in 8/9am for surgery. Operated on 12 hours later. The poor surgeon had done several ops back to back. The hospital had no bed when she was finished. She was on a trolley being moved a couple of times during the night post surgery to wherever there was staff. I put her in a wheelchair and took her home 12 hours after surgery, dragged a bed downstairs in my house to nurse her myself. The hospital had NOTHING for her. No bed no doctor. When the cancer came back, the test results were lost for 5 months. This country is in crisis and anyone stating that obvious fact is treated as a racist xenophobe.

FGS we can’t even run bin collections effectively!

I was on the council website looking at a secondary school and it received 4 times as many applications as there were places. In 2021.

We are utterly fucked. And it’s nothing whatsoever to do with xenophobia.

At last someone spells it out very clearly. I am very sorry about your mother.

The OP is expresssing genuine concerns, nothing more and nothing less. It does NOT equal Xenabloodyphobia FGS.

The hypocrisy around Covid is outstanding. I don't give a damn about vaccines and have not had any. But the abuse on here to anyone that admitted that. Bloody hell.

[quote DrManhattan]@marshabradyo
That's not what my comment is about.[/quote]
Ok
What did you mean? Can you expand

No I'm not concerned. I am concerned about Putin starting World War III. Which he might if he gets away with this.

Our country and services having been degraded over the past 12 years are the problem, not the refugees.