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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

... to not be sure cancelling 1940s events is the right move?

54 replies

AmbushedByTheCake · 14/03/2022 19:02

I have a friend who runs a 1940s stall/trade/enactment business - there is a milatary aspect to part of what she does but not completely - wartime dress etc.

She and others were messaged by a 1940s festival that they are cancelling the event outright for this year. The explanation given is that it is out of a mark of respect for Ukraine and for anyone local feeling affected by those events.

Other similar events and venues have since done something similar and left her and other traders feeling upset at the loss of their trade/livelihoods having this avenue in the light of the last few years.

Personally, I am not sure about battle/war reenactments in general - I suppose if it is done respectfully, a sense of celebrating something of the spirit of an era and it depends on the specifics of the historical period. Also, an alternative version of the events could perhaps have been held focusing on the era, if not the war elements.

But I suppose I am wondering about the reasoning of it - there have been conflicts and horrible global atrocities in the past decade or so: Darfur, the horrors of Isis, the earlier Ukraine conflict, Syria, Afghanisation, Somalia. I know this one is European, and physically closer, but those ones have also been brutal, horrific and caused people to flee. If it isn't right this year to hold these events, then when would it be right, on these grounds?

I will open it up to voting as happy to be told I am unreasonable - I may have read it completely wrong.

OP posts:
CannaBelieve · 14/03/2022 19:07

these events will have stalls and no doubt Nazi memorabilia, either fake or original, to buy

i have been to plenty re-enactments and seen many an idiot there who thinks its 'real'

ClariceQuiff · 14/03/2022 19:14

It's one of those 'where do you draw the line' questions. You could, of course, be against any war re-enactment on principle but once you start trying to set rules about which are OK and when, it becomes more difficult.

I don't really see that WW2 re-enactment is any more offensive in the current climate than it might have been to certain people in any time over the last 70 years.

However, they could have held the festival with a 'no militaria' caveat if they were worried - like you say, with a focus on other cultural aspects of the era. Cancelling it altogether seems OTT.

dfendyr · 14/03/2022 19:30

@CannaBelieve

these events will have stalls and no doubt Nazi memorabilia, either fake or original, to buy

i have been to plenty re-enactments and seen many an idiot there who thinks its 'real'

I'm not sure it is legal to sell nazi memorabilia in a lot of places in Europe
DetailMouse · 14/03/2022 19:32

There is something off about celebrating that period, as if it was a golden time in history.

ClariceQuiff · 14/03/2022 19:34

It's not illegal to sell Nazi memorabilia in the UK though some platforms, such as eBay, ban it.

Doubtless banning it would simply drive it underground.

It would be easy enough for an individual festival to ban the sale of Nazi memorabilia.

CannaBelieve · 14/03/2022 19:37

@dfendyr

course you can buy it!! my ex collected it. we were at one of the re-enacted like described in the op and a pair of P.O.W. striped top/bottoms was on sale

i hated it all and he was a short lived boyfriend

Ablababla · 14/03/2022 19:38

They’ve cancelled the local steam railway’s ‘war on the line’ event which appears to be people dressing up in 1940s clothes etc. seems odd and I highly doubt anyone is selling nazi artefacts at these sort of events!

Anonymous48 · 14/03/2022 19:40

@CannaBelieve

these events will have stalls and no doubt Nazi memorabilia, either fake or original, to buy

i have been to plenty re-enactments and seen many an idiot there who thinks its 'real'

"these events will have stalls and no doubt Nazi memorabilia, either fake or original, to buy"

They will? Seriously? I've never been to an event like this, but your statement surprises me. You sound sure about it. Have you actually seen this in real life?

ClariceQuiff · 14/03/2022 19:45

@Anonymous48 Nazi memorabilia is a popular 'collectable'. I imagine some of the buyers are the same people who watch the seemingly endless TV history programmes with 'Hitler' in their title.

CannaBelieve · 14/03/2022 19:46

yes, my ex used to attend them. He had the full gear. Waffen ss stuff,the lot. All very collectable and ££.He was military and was just very very interested in it all. obviouly theres a lot of different things to collect. helmets,badges,cap badges,medals

and some of his old regiment attend regularly

TheLeadbetterLife · 14/03/2022 19:46

You could flip it around OP and ask why there aren't fairs and events reenacting Afghanistan in 2002, or Stalin's Russia. The fetishisation of WWII in the UK is weird.

Anonymous48 · 14/03/2022 19:49

[quote ClariceQuiff]@Anonymous48 Nazi memorabilia is a popular 'collectable'. I imagine some of the buyers are the same people who watch the seemingly endless TV history programmes with 'Hitler' in their title.[/quote]
Wow! That's insane. I had no idea. Why would anybody want to own Nazi memorabilia?

ClariceQuiff · 14/03/2022 19:49

You could flip it around OP and ask why there aren't fairs and events reenacting Afghanistan in 2002, or Stalin's Russia.

A quick search on eBay confirms there is indeed a market for 'Stalin collectables'.

ClariceQuiff · 14/03/2022 19:53

Why would anybody want to own Nazi memorabilia?

Any number of reasons - morbid curiosity being one (you might ask why some people read true crime books, as a comparison). It might be part of a general interest in WW2 - again, in the same way many people have a favourite period of history to some degree or other. And, of course, some collectors will be members of the far right/Neo-Nazis.

CannaBelieve · 14/03/2022 19:54

they call themselves 'living history' groups sometimes.

HopefulProcrastinator · 14/03/2022 19:56

YANBU but it's less batshit than banning the 1812 overture which was written to celebrate defeating Napoleon (a war in which Russia were our allies against an expansionist military leader).

TravellingFrom · 14/03/2022 20:07

A ‘living in the 1940’ reenactment is different from a war reenactment though.
You can have a reenactment of the daily life Wo all the war stuff.

MontagueLeo · 14/03/2022 20:10

The Red Army played a significant role in WW2 and commonly feature in re-enactments.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 14/03/2022 20:19

Who wants a bunch of pissed up middleclass twats waving fake guns around at the moment?

Luredbyapomegranate · 14/03/2022 20:21

@CannaBelieve

these events will have stalls and no doubt Nazi memorabilia, either fake or original, to buy

i have been to plenty re-enactments and seen many an idiot there who thinks its 'real'

It’s pretty unusual to sell Nazi memorabilia at a WW2 reenactment event!

I think the venues probably think people won’t come OP - WW2/full on war across Europe used to feel safely in the past, now it doesn’t. It’ll be more that than taste worries, because those events are respectful to the point of whitewashing (and beyond).

Lansonmaid · 14/03/2022 20:23

It's an interesting question. I am in the English Civil war society and our regiment has both military and civilian sections. We try to bring a turbulent period of British history to life and our displays are very popular. I don't think we glamourise the war at all, in fact a lot of people do get into a discussion with us about the causes and consequences of the civil wars.

When is too recent to reenact? I do get uncomfortable with the idea of people wanting to reenact the Waffen SS and think perhaps the military reenactment of WW2 might be better waiting for when the last survivors have passed away.

DetailMouse · 14/03/2022 20:24

@TravellingFrom

A ‘living in the 1940’ reenactment is different from a war reenactment though. You can have a reenactment of the daily life Wo all the war stuff.
I still think it very much glorifies wartime life with rose tinted glasses
Lansonmaid · 14/03/2022 20:26

@NeverDropYourMooncup

Who wants a bunch of pissed up middleclass twats waving fake guns around at the moment?
Whatever you may think of us reenactors I can assure you that drunkenness in charge of a black powder firing musket is viewed very dimly in our Society and you won't be allowed to take the field.
TunaTuna · 14/03/2022 20:27

As a young curator, I caught the veterans at DDay 50. Some had clearly told the same stories over and over again. Others were recalling memories very buried, often surprising their families.
I hate the WW2 re enactment groups. It's never subtle, never naunced. I can't believe the multi period get togethers actually ever though labelling a beer tent 'no nazis' excused any invite.
It has allowed the idea that the World wars were fought by heroes to take hold. Actually it was much more lead by donkeys. The real heroism came later, everyone dealing with PTSD and holding a domestic life together for the next generation.
I don't have a problem with sealed knot and the Romans, it's far enough out of living memory to be less offensive. The research into the replicas based on archeology is very important.
I find the whole victory roll hairstyles and strutting around in real uniforms distasteful. It's too soon.

Nightlystroll · 14/03/2022 20:29

So far as I know our towns 40s weekend is going ahead still. It brings in lots of money for the area and had been cancelled for the past two years. I didn't really associate it with Ukraine. I don't think it was cancelled when Putin was involved in bombing Syria.

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