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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

... to not be sure cancelling 1940s events is the right move?

54 replies

AmbushedByTheCake · 14/03/2022 19:02

I have a friend who runs a 1940s stall/trade/enactment business - there is a milatary aspect to part of what she does but not completely - wartime dress etc.

She and others were messaged by a 1940s festival that they are cancelling the event outright for this year. The explanation given is that it is out of a mark of respect for Ukraine and for anyone local feeling affected by those events.

Other similar events and venues have since done something similar and left her and other traders feeling upset at the loss of their trade/livelihoods having this avenue in the light of the last few years.

Personally, I am not sure about battle/war reenactments in general - I suppose if it is done respectfully, a sense of celebrating something of the spirit of an era and it depends on the specifics of the historical period. Also, an alternative version of the events could perhaps have been held focusing on the era, if not the war elements.

But I suppose I am wondering about the reasoning of it - there have been conflicts and horrible global atrocities in the past decade or so: Darfur, the horrors of Isis, the earlier Ukraine conflict, Syria, Afghanisation, Somalia. I know this one is European, and physically closer, but those ones have also been brutal, horrific and caused people to flee. If it isn't right this year to hold these events, then when would it be right, on these grounds?

I will open it up to voting as happy to be told I am unreasonable - I may have read it completely wrong.

OP posts:
balalake · 14/03/2022 20:29

It is quite possible that there will be Ukranians in your area by the time of the festival. I think it is a considerate decision.

CannaBelieve · 14/03/2022 20:34

@Luredbyapomegranate is it? traders travel to these events

where do you think all the re-enactors get their gear? it brings in a lot of money

Riseholme · 14/03/2022 20:38

I love the Haworth 1940’s weekend.

My df was 9 when WW2 began, for him it was just a big adventure. I’m sure for adults it was a horrific experience.

CannaBelieve · 14/03/2022 20:40

some now do request no nazi memorabilia so hopefully it fizzles out

Burgerqueenbee · 14/03/2022 20:40

I was involved in a 1940s event a few years ago (charity bake sale stall) and was chatting to a friend about how (in my opinion) it is a bit weird to be holding these events and what must tourists from other countries think about it.

Do 1940's events get held in other countries involved in ww2?

ButtockUp · 14/03/2022 20:47

I have to admit that I don't like war re-enactments
I totally get Larping but not the fighting bit.

If you're friend is in the non-conflict side of re-enactment then it's so sad that she has been cancelled, as it were, but if her business is a part of a war re-enactment then im not surprised that she's been cancelled.

Maybe these re-enactment groups, for now, could just tailor their activities to the social side of their chosen eras for now ... ie, read the room .

Greebosmum · 14/03/2022 21:04

I belong to a 1940s living history group. My interest is the home front, rationing recipes, make do and mend. I actually think there is a lot to learn in the way of sustainable living by studying the rules and regulations put in place during WW2.

I dont know anyone who collects Nazi memorabilia certainly not in our group.

My Dad was in the RAF as a regular before the war started. My Mum was in the Fire Service. They enjoyed seeing our purchases and I enjoyed hearing their stories.

I get that not everybody likes it. Whether or not events should be taking place at the moment I really don't know. I will continue to follow my interest regardless.

DanielRicciardosSmile · 14/03/2022 21:25

@Ablababla

They’ve cancelled the local steam railway’s ‘war on the line’ event which appears to be people dressing up in 1940s clothes etc. seems odd and I highly doubt anyone is selling nazi artefacts at these sort of events!
Don't know how true it is, but DS was telling me this morning that many heritage railways are struggling to obtain coal supplies for their steam engines. May have something to do with the cancellation if so.
jimmyhill · 14/03/2022 21:29

More awkwardly than Nazi memorabilia, they might have Soviet memorabilia...

NeverDropYourMooncup · 14/03/2022 22:07

Whatever you may think of us reenactors I can assure you that drunkenness in charge of a black powder firing musket is viewed very dimly in our Society and you won't be allowed to take the field

Oh, I didn't mean the people who actually take part in reenactments - not sure of the correct word - performer? - sense. I know anything that is actually dangerous is very heavily controlled and things from 350-ish years ago and older are a different ballgame. I mean the ones who like getting pissed in dress up.

tigerbird · 14/03/2022 22:27

I’ve seen some of these 40s reenactment events at our local stately home type place, and I think they’re always in dubious taste tbh, and definitely should not be on right at the moment.

The ones I’ve seen involve gun displays, displays of live grenade throwing (!), tanks on display (!) and people dressed up in all sorts of WW2 military memorabilia and uniforms, with all the hardware “collectible” stuff (eg actual and replica guns etc.) out on show. And of course a nice tea tent with ladies in 1940s outfits serving scones to the sound of Vera Lynn. But there’s more gun stuff than tea tent tbh.

I get why some people enjoy the history of it, but it’s actually pretty horrendous to treat it all as a fun day out with a bit of replica grenade exploding at any time - a Dutch friend was with me one time when they were there, and was absolutely appalled: it would be seen as in the worst possible taste in any European country that was occupied and had huge numbers of people die in camps during WW2. She was quite astonished (not in a good way) that British people thought of this as fun nostalgia, when in Holland it would be seen as hugely disrespectful and even rather ghoulish.

Even if you don’t think so in general; right now, when we are seeing real tanks rolling into cities, and children and civilians being killed by real guns and grenades, it does look like extreme crassness and stupidity at the very least, to hold events like that for “fun”.

War isn’t a fun day out in a tea tent for nostalgic English baby boomers and pensioners. It’s barbaric and horrific, and wartime reenactment societies should really not be holding events like that right now. Not to mention how many people - children especially - might find it pretty frightening given what’s all over the news.

MargaretThursday · 14/03/2022 22:47

D's was very interested in WW2 when younger so we did a number of ordination type events.

I don't think I ever saw Nazi memorabilia on sale.
It was a lot more about the history and learning what children did, old games, buying food with a ration card, and running to an air raid shelter when the alarm went.I don't think it glorifies war, nor is it a nostalgic reminiscence day.
I've done Victorian fair days and as a child we went to a civil war reenactment, and it is much more about the history than anything else.

tigerbird · 14/03/2022 22:57

@MargaretThursday there isn’t Nazi memorabilia at the ones I’ve seen either, but, as above, they do have grenade explosion displays, rifle and gun displays, tanks, plus people dressed up in all sorts of military uniforms from WW2. (Not much home front history at all.) How can that kind of stuff be appropriate right now?

PriamFarrl · 14/03/2022 23:09

We have a WWII themed tea rooms in our town. I always thought it was in poor taste if I’m honest. 1940s would be fine. Nice china, table cloths, music etc would be lovely but this fetishisation of the war is just strange and wrong.
We walked by it the other day and we both commented that it seemed even worse now.

RobotValkyrie · 14/03/2022 23:41

Isn't the problem more that cosplaying as Dad's Army while there's people around who've just fled an active war zone (often with male relatives still defending said war zone) is just fucking embarrassingly tone-deaf and distasteful?
I mean, it's awkward enough in peace time, but mind-numbingly out of place in actual war time...

A bit like if someone decided to "clap for the NHS" by posing in sexy nurse costume during the height of the COVID pandemic. It lacks gravitas...

RobotValkyrie · 14/03/2022 23:46

running to an air raid shelter when the alarm went

Oh yeah, nice fun and games, eh?
Not like some actual people have actually had to live like that for real for the last 2 or 3 weeks or so. Have seen their houses destroyed, and perhaps have lost friends and relatives in air raids.
Completely sensible and appropriate and not triggering at all...

tigerbird · 14/03/2022 23:50

Not even just cosplaying as Dad’s Army but cosplaying actual army! I found some photos online of the regular one near where we live in Essex:
www.reddit.com/r/CasualUK/comments/9azdpy/ww2_reenactment_weekend_at_audley_end/

The grenade stuff and the military reenactment exercises are the main events. Very different indeed from a nice sedate display about the home front and land girls and ration books for kids and all that stuff.

You can see perfectly well from those photos why it would be in fucking horrendous taste to hold that kind of event right now!

MangyInseam · 14/03/2022 23:53

If they are going to ban these kinds of events because of war they will have to ban them outright - there is always a war.

Talipesmum · 14/03/2022 23:55

But I suppose I am wondering about the reasoning of it - there have been conflicts and horrible global atrocities in the past decade or so: Darfur, the horrors of Isis, the earlier Ukraine conflict, Syria, Afghanisation, Somalia. I know this one is European, and physically closer, but those ones have also been brutal, horrific and caused people to flee. If it isn't right this year to hold these events, then when would it be right, on these grounds?

I am not at all keen on war reenactment events, but agree that this is what seems unreasonable. It’s like they’re saying “this war is more real and upsetting than all these other wars”. It highlights the lack of regard and understanding of other brutal conflicts and atrocities. They’ve all been horrendous.

Changechangychange · 14/03/2022 23:58

@CannaBelieve

yes, my ex used to attend them. He had the full gear. Waffen ss stuff,the lot. All very collectable and ££.He was military and was just very very interested in it all. obviouly theres a lot of different things to collect. helmets,badges,cap badges,medals

and some of his old regiment attend regularly

Um, I think owning and wearing a full SS uniform on a regular basis goes a bit beyond “WW2 hobbyist” and tips over into “probably actually a Nazi”. I mean, the other option would be “fetishist”, but you’d probably know if that was the case.
BookkeeperBobby · 15/03/2022 06:57

God the UK is weird about WWII which by the way was "won" by the Soviets sending so many millions of their own boys to the slaughter that the Germans couldn't get through them.

That said we haven't stopped this cutesy plucky false narrative bullshit dressup for any previous wars and plenty have raged throughout the world in the last seven decades.

ClariceQuiff · 15/03/2022 07:09

We shouldn't forget that for people of my parents' generation, the 1940s are still 'nostalgia' territory. A 1940s event for them would be like a 1970s event for me. All that happened in the decade, good or bad, is part of their lived personal history and it's natural to enjoy revisiting it.

BookkeeperBobby · 15/03/2022 07:13

I guess it depends on perspective. Across my family there's only ex-mil who remembers WWII and she often expresses bafflement at these type of events saying she doesn't know why anyone would think that period of time was fun.

InsufficientOven · 15/03/2022 07:15

@CannaBelieve

these events will have stalls and no doubt Nazi memorabilia, either fake or original, to buy

i have been to plenty re-enactments and seen many an idiot there who thinks its 'real'

I was at a 1940's wartime fair in 2019 and no one was selling any nazi memorabilia there.
Newnormal99 · 15/03/2022 07:21

@Ablababla

They’ve cancelled the local steam railway’s ‘war on the line’ event which appears to be people dressing up in 1940s clothes etc. seems odd and I highly doubt anyone is selling nazi artefacts at these sort of events!
Is that KESR? We went a couple of years ago and it was great. There was a few army style jeeps in the display bit and also one of the smaller stations had a few army bits but it was more geared to the culture / music / dress than military. (You could easily have lost the army stuff at second station without impacting overall event)