AIBU to be totally confused (cost of living crisis)

[LittleBitHeiressLittleBitIris]

AIBU to not be able to understand/ grasp the scale of impending disaster that is building over the increased cost of living?

I genuinely don't see how millions of people with outgoings that are about to be actually higher than income is going to play out.

I'm not trying to be goady and obviously realise no-one has a crystal ball but am I missing something? Has this ever happened before in other recent times/ other cultures and what was the result. I can't even imagine what could happen.

I feel really clueless! Any ideas/ opinions/ further reading much appreciated 👍

I can give you an example...I have a relative who can no longer afford to eat and heat. He has had heating off for ages... was in tears to his mum that he was done with feeling cold. His landlord has increased rent by 20%... a huge amount. He is considering suicide rather than living now.

This is really sad. But landlords are running a business and have to earn a living too.

Look at all the legislation in this sector brought in in recent years (with more to come) - these things cost lots of money that many landlords don't have lying around - hence the rent has to go up.

There doesn't seem to be much joined up thinking surrounding these issues unfortunately. Lots of landlords are selling up as it just isn't worth it - taking houses away from the rental market when we already have a housing crisis.

@parboil

I agree with *@ChickenStripper* at least to an extent. Her description of modern consumerist lifestyles - sure, there might be lots of people who don't live like that, but most of the people I know do (affluent area). Some people will be able to keep affording this lifestyle - but there will be a significant number who can't. I know people who live like this (huge amount spent on 'lifestyle') who walk to work at the end of the month because they literally can't afford to put petrol in the car until payday - they have no savings or financial buffer whatsoever. In some ways, it's not a bad thing if those kinds of lifestyles change (mainly because they're helping to wreck the planet with endless consumption and tat), but there will also be lots of people on lower incomes who depend on that lifestyle spend to pay the bills. Plus, the less people spend, the less tax revenue will be available to support those who really are on the breadline.

Fair enough. I don't know anyone who lives like that and I am not on the breadline. Maybe my age I don't know. I am the late fifties and everyone I know at all levels of income manages their money pretty carefully. In fact, my close friend does this when there really is no need as she is very well off. I do think the easy availability of credit has changed people's idea of spending. We have a relatively large mortgage for our level of income and don't have that much left over. But we don't have expensive tastes either. So we go walking with friends, around friends houses for a pizza, barbecues in summer. I have no interest in spending a fortune on cocktails on a night out.

I do not think there is much point in comparing with the past as we are where we are now although those whose parents grew up during WWII and rationing and national service (my parents were teenagers during WII) did grow up with that acute knowledge of how things were then never mind our parents talking about the 1930s. ( Bought the 1921 census recently and for most of my family how things were there was not great - household with parents, daughter and her husband and 3 adult sons - 7 of them and only the father in work all the men out of work from the shipyard in Sunderland in 1921. My granny's family - 3 oldest girl including her away in service (as you were fed then by the family) and her mother at home widowed due to WW1 and with 7 youngest children all at home - none for the 8 at home had any earnings either. We are not in the 1920s or 30s now and no one wants to go back to that.

People will probably have to make difficult choices in 2022 (where they have a choice at all) as to where money is spent.

This is very much an international issue, not just a UK one. I watched a 5th Esate programme yesterday about rising rents in Canada for example which had so many similarities with the same issues in the UK.

@ValkyrieVik most landlords are doing fine. Before buy to let mortgages existed, rents were cheaper than mortgages. This idea that a rent should cover a mortgage payment did not exist. Landlords owned houses and rented them out.

National economics aren't the same as balancing a household budget, it is a false and oversimplified model that the Tories have been promoting since the 70s because it suits their agenda of dismantling public services and keeping the riffraff in their place.

Exactly. I am so sick of people bleating about "how our kids will all be paying the "bill" for COVID" - our kids don't have to - it's only if they keep electing Tory Governments they'll be getting scammed.

I have accepted that I am surplus to the requirements of society and when my elderly cat dies I shall remove myself from it.

@Bringsexyback

Well are we going to force a general election? If its going to be that bad ? In the 1920 they had general strikes. If people think we are returning to those days I suggest we return to those mentalities as well sharpish. It’s actually going to be nowhere near as bad as people are making out at all. Lots of people have had decent pay rises this year that will come to balance any increase in food and fuel prices if you haven’t I suggest you ask for one but I’ve been suggesting that on about 13 threads over the weekend and I just get we can’t …..well then it’s your own fault then.

I’ve been suggesting that on about 13 threads over the weekend and I just get we can’t …..well then it’s your own fault then.

No you haven't just got 'we can't ' you've had people explaining, in detail and with more patience than you deserve, how they HAVE asked, and how it's rarely that simple. And now people are having to spell it out to you yet again.

People aren't saying 'we can't'. You just HEAR 'we can't', because you're convinced that poverty is the fault of the individual.

Posters above go on about "wasting money" on nail art and takeaway coffees but these things are keeping people in jobs

There’s a massive shortage of care workers. If spending on luxuries ends there will still be plenty of jobs for those people.

It's so worrying.

We already have a huge issue with fewer and fewer taxpayers (young people) as the birth rate gets lower, but the ever increasing costs of our ageing population. I am near retirement myself, so not having a pop at older people!!

If young people take the completely reasonable decision to emigrate to countries where they won't be taxed at crazy levels to support the elderly, with no hope of ever owning a home etc things will just get worse and worse.

Meanwhile the Tories and their mates will just get richer, and laugh at the poor thick fuckers who vote them in

@LittleBitHeiressLittleBitIris
Has this ever happened before in other recent times/ other cultures and what was the result. I can't even imagine what could happen

Are you a big bit “heiress”.
What bubble have you been living in?!!!

@BrightonBunny

It's so worrying.

We already have a huge issue with fewer and fewer taxpayers (young people) as the birth rate gets lower, but the ever increasing costs of our ageing population. I am near retirement myself, so not having a pop at older people!!

If young people take the completely reasonable decision to emigrate to countries where they won't be taxed at crazy levels to support the elderly, with no hope of ever owning a home etc things will just get worse and worse.

Meanwhile the Tories and their mates will just get richer, and laugh at the poor thick fuckers who vote them in

Easy solution to this is immigration of young workers and families.

What gets me is people saying they can't afford to buy food, but can afford eyelashes, top holidays, crappy nail art, subscriptions to things they don't use.

I am so so careful with money, and have none of these luxuries, but still can't seem keep afloat and husband and I earn a decent amount!

Haven’t RTFT but this caught my eye…

Lots of people have had decent pay rises this year that will come to balance any increase in food and fuel prices if you haven’t I suggest you ask for one

I’m guessing this poster doesn’t work in the public sector.

@Motherdare

I don’t want to minimise because I know a lot of people are worried. I just want to say that all of this was said about Brexit and then about COVID. The dire forecasts never really materialised, certainly not on the grand scales predicted.

150,000 people died of covid in the UK and brexit has materially harmed uk businesses who relied on EU trading (not to mention infantalised uk politics for a generation).

Just because some predicted the sky would fall down doesn't mean they weren't still really bad.

^ Correction: it's in fact 163,000 covid deaths.

@sjxoxo

The previous posts about the french are true- they protest & largely get listened to- they also have a centrist government. They wouldn’t tolerate an elitist old boys club dressed up as ‘middle class’ who give out public funds via dodgy contracts to their old mates. They still have a lot of unions. They also have a higher minimum wage, and the government subsidise heavily the cost of living for childcare, and the energy cap for example. People need to understand if they vote Tory, we get a selfish government & a way of life is that is based on selfishness. X

But in France the taxes for high earners (100k +) are lower than they are in the UK, especially as they are calculated per household.

I truly believe a lot of people will continue to vote Tory because they are scared of a huge increase in income tax from a Labour gov.
I’m not talking about super riches (1m+) but the middle class family with one person on 100k+, a SAHP and 2 DC. It would be too costly for them to vote Labour but in France it wouldn’t be the case.

(I’m definitely not saying poor them, just giving an insight as a French person living on the UK as to why French are going center/left whereas the UK seem to be stuck with Conservatives)

@Blossomtoes

Posters above go on about "wasting money" on nail art and takeaway coffees but these things are keeping people in jobs

There’s a massive shortage of care workers. If spending on luxuries ends there will still be plenty of jobs for those people.

Enough jobs that pay enough and have suitable hours etc for not just the nail technician and the barista but for all those in associated roles?

The managers, regional managers, the cleaners, the wholesalers, the importers/manufacturers, the hauliers, the shop fitters, the accountant and book keeper, the uniform supplier, the commercial waste collectors, etc etc

Even if they all get an alternative job what is going to fill the commercial premises?

This puritanical disapproval of discretionary spending is short sighted. The economy needs people to spend money or it stagnates.

For some (me as an example) it's the difference of a foreign holiday. We normally go to Europe for a couple of weeks every year which costs around £5k. This year that money is going into an account to buffer the increases and we're staying home.

For most it's not a choice between heating and eating, yet.

Easy solution to this is immigration of young workers and families.

I agree @alltheapples but firstly there's bloody Brexit, and secondly, why would anyone want to come here now?

Easy solution to this is immigration of young workers and families.

No it isn't - that's just a giant ponzi scheme that ignores the fact that everyone gets old (if they are lucky).

I agree it is the squeezed middle class is the key voted in the fricking Tories I actually know people who are lorded Gentry who didn’t vote to Tory and in someways you can kind of understand their fear what blows my mind is the mechanics and 17 grand a year voting for them those are the people that labour need to reach next time.

@Blossomtoes

Care to elaborate? That’s a pretty bizarre contribution to this thread

That is a very, very famous quote. Not bizarre at all.

Google it.

@LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee someone earning £100k is rich. Not super rich, but they are in the high earning group in Britain.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone yes everyone gets old. Then younger people pay for their care. Rinse and repeat.
But I also think there needs to be much higher inheritance tax than there is.

Just ask for a payrise?
I can’t really reply to that without breaking rules about ad hominem attacks 🤷🏻‍♀️

My husband runs a small business. Let’s say it’s a nail bar. One of his staff just asked if a pay rise would be possible. He’s split up with his girlfriend and is trying to get a higher mortgage to buy her out. Going rate for his role in our town is NMW. My husband already pays him £1 above NMW, because of his personal ethics. He wants to pay £1 above the new NMW rate. He’s worked out he can do that, by taking less than NMW himself. On paper, he should close the business. Prices have already been put up, but there’s only so much the customers will take. There are other “nail bars” in town which are used as money laundering operations and use illegal workers on less than NMW. So you can get his “nails” cheaper on the same street. He has nowhere to go with pricing. He has decided to take less than NMW himself to keep the business going. It will keep 3 staff in a job. He can only afford to do this, because I’m earning.
So that staff member? He’s actually going to get his £1 over new NMW, and it’s coming from my pocket. (and I’m happy with that, and the employee doesn’t know)
But - the £2 over that he “just asked” for? No way.

It isn’t as simple as “just ask for a payrise” and you’d have to be thick to think it was.