To think holiday homes could be used to house lots of refugees

[Letshaveablackcelebration]

Uk has a LOT of holiday homes and empty second homes. Surely they could be used to take a lot of Refugees aswell as spare rooms? It could support local economies all year round too rather than just in peak tourism seasons? The crisis is going to escalate rapidly in Ukraine- there are 44 million people in the country and so far it’s about 2 million who have fled and now countries like Moldova and the Poland are starting to struggle so we need to step up.

Aibu? It seems like an obvious solution. Obviously using the empty homes of oligarchs too is a preference.

I read an article about a woman who gave her French holiday home to a refugee family.

Lots of good points made including that it's not as simple as a roof over your head as if it were we could just put up tents in the parks. Taking people in requires taking on so much more with food, clothing, transport, medical treatment, advice/support and so on.

I love the "loads of empty homes" idea as if they just sit there unused and unwanted. As most people have pointed out they are mostly already being used to make enough money for some family to live on.

As for the emotional prod "we need to step up." I'm not sure that's very well thought through.

For one thing as others have pointed out there are homeless on the streets here and no one wants us to 'step up' for them. I guess worrying about the fate of refugees is 'cooler' and earns more points on social media.

If someone sees refugees and feels genuine sympathy that is a good thing and shouldn't be discouraged, but even if we had the means to move the population of Ukraine to the UK it wouldn't make much sense to do so.

We could empty the whole country and Putin could move in and then attack the next country over. Do we evacuate them too?

Better to do something about the cause rather than trying to treat the symptoms.

@AngelinaFibres

Ah sorry I must have missed that. It’s just funny how many of these people telling everyone else how they can help are tragically unable to help themselves.

So telling the first reaction was ‘well, if we can’t make shitloads we’ll just sell’.

So you are saying that people are greedy then? For what? Wanting to make money from their job?(ie being a landlord). Usually not shitloads either, often a modest income in the case of those who own one or two properties.

Do you not think people who manage properties and all the legal shite that comes with it should earn a living from it? (My dh works 12 hour days most days).

If people don't make a living from their job, they will have to give it up (ie sell their properties) thus taking those properties from the rental market.
What do you think will happen then? In a country where there is already a housing crisis?

There's just no thought at all gone into some of these comments - just people who don't know their arse from their elbow.

Yabu. If someone doesn't want to open their home to a refugee or hand over their holiday home, then that's absolutely fine.

I think the poster is being very naive here to think it’s that simple.

Being a refugee comes with a whole host of problems. Imagine being suddenly uprooted from your country and dumped somewhere else where you know no-one and don’t speak the language. Are you going to just adjust back to normal life?

The hotel where I am getting married took in refugees over the lockdown while they were closed. I don’t know what happened there but it’s now trashed and is currently undergoing million pound refurbishments ready for the weddings they booked prior to lockdown. I don’t think they were wrong to help but it’s very worrying and sad to see the state of this once beautiful 4 star hotel. How would a normal person afford to fix problems when their holiday homes that provide essential income can’t be rented out as a result?

These aren't normal refugees looking for a better life, these are literally women and children with nowhere to go

I agree with this completely, but just to mention that people simply "looking for a better life" aren't necessarily refugees

From the United Nations:
Article 1(A)(2) of the Refugee Convention defines a refugee as someone who:
^…owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection
of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it^

@AngelinaFibres we have one teeny spare bedroom and a biggish office/living room down stairs so whatever we’re allowed to in those. We also have the worry that DHs elderly parents are in Georgia, and we know Putin has his eye on them too, so that adds to how we feel about this all.

I’ve been helping out with Chernobyl children (interpreting) for several years, that country has been through so much already.

I think that there are lots of unused spaces - eg empty offices, empty retail spaces that could be adapted, whereas holiday homes are either a functioning business and therefore in use.

These aren't normal refugees looking for a better life

Huh...they are refugees. They're fleeing war. Those looking for a better life are often economic migrants

@Puzzledandpissedoff they get jobs and sort out their own accomodation.

@PourSomeLove

But you want to basically railroad her into having total strangers in her home whilst thinking of/ hiding behind lots of reasons why you can't .

Yep. And she certainly isn’t thinking of the refugees at all, having to live with her mum who would think they are thieves and is racist.

But I suppose she would get attention for saying ‘my parents took in Ukrainian refugees’, and claim glory by association., cheered on by all the others who would have given up their second home....if they had one of course.

Oh get a bloody grip. Yes I want my mum to take in Ukrainian women and children so that I can brag about it to people. Of course that is far more logical than me, as a pregnant mother, feeling compassion for the mothers and children who have had everything bloody ripped from them. They're being spoke about like nothing more than inconveniences. Funnily enough I didn't know my mum would react that way when faced with the possibility, hence why I've said I was disgusted by it. She obviously didn't think I'd react the way I did when she seemed to think I'd also think it was awful. My dad obviously didn't know she'd be so against it when he suggested it. Funnily enough, a lot of middle class people do a pretty good job hiding their racism. All I am saying is that this could so, so easily be us one day. If my children and me were desperate it would break my bloody heart to read this thread where women, mothers, even the bloody government are talking about us like a problem to pass on to someone else. The people who can help, should think about it. That is my point. I know some people on mumsnet have to disagree with absolutely everything people say but it's true. We are lucky we were born here, we are lucky we have never been in this situation, there will be valid reasons to, and not to, do it. But it should be thought through. Imagine this was you and your kids.

You don’t want to do anything because you’re pregnant and a mother but you want your mum to look after people for who knows how long. And it would be your mother of course not your father doing the running around let’s be honest.

Oh yes. Easy for the father to volunteer his wife as much as it’s easy for someone with no second home to offer other people’s second home.

@Theluggage15

You don’t want to do anything because you’re pregnant and a mother but you want your mum to look after people for who knows how long. And it would be your mother of course not your father doing the running around let’s be honest.

I want people in a place of privilege who have the means to think about it. Manipulate my words as much as you like. That is my stance.

God I’m sorry but there is simply no way I’d be up for housing complete strangers for an indeterminate amount of time. Particularly not in my actual home.

I’d donate money and food, clothes whatever. But no, I don’t want to take anyone in. I need to put my two young children first and for me that is not inviting random strangers into our home. So so many reasons. You don’t know what issues this will bring to your doorstep. I don’t know how to help a traumatised person.

The people who actually do this (not just the ones that say they “totally would” and actually totally wouldn’t when push comes to shove) are bloody sainting heroes in my view.

Also still don’t get why having kids yourself would preclude you from offering up a room. As others in this thread have said it’s not that hard and only for 6 months. You could move the kids into your bedroom/use a downstairs room or similar.

@Kanaloa

Also still don’t get why having kids yourself would preclude you from offering up a room. As others in this thread have said it’s not that hard and only for 6 months. You could move the kids into your bedroom/use a downstairs room or similar.

Because I have no empty bedrooms?!

I want people in a place of privilege who have the means to think about it. Manipulate my words as much as you like. That is my stance.

But your mum has thought about it. She was asked and said no. She doesn’t want to. She’s worried about what type of people the refugees may be, or maybe about something else. Same as you’ve thought about it and decided you absolutely can’t because you’re pregnant and have kids. You’ve both thought about it, you’ve both said no.

Don’t your kids have bedrooms? You could move them in with you.

But @yebs you won't be doing the work( for all the reasons you gave on p14, including living 3 hours away) your mum will. Your dad will presumably retreat to another part of their home and leave her to deal with it all. And, when it inevitably goes pear shaped, he will turn it into being her idea and wash his hands of it. Once their house is full of total strangers you won't be able to stay over with your children and new baby and she won't be able to visit you because she won't be able to leave her house. ( or is that actually why you are so keen)

@Kanaloa

I want people in a place of privilege who have the means to think about it. Manipulate my words as much as you like. That is my stance.

But your mum has thought about it. She was asked and said no. She doesn’t want to. She’s worried about what type of people the refugees may be, or maybe about something else. Same as you’ve thought about it and decided you absolutely can’t because you’re pregnant and have kids. You’ve both thought about it, you’ve both said no.

She didn't think about it. She wouldn't even have a conversation about it. She said she didn't want those people in her house. Pure snobbery with not a single valid reason (there are plenty - she didn't give any)

But ok. I'm bored of arguing. So you're right. It's absolutely a-ok for people to shut down the thought of helping people in need without any consideration. It's alright. It'll never be us so who cares right? Until it is, that is.

@Kanaloa

Don’t your kids have bedrooms? You could move them in with you.

You seen the size of new build bedrooms before? I think 5 people in a double bed might get child services phoned on me 😂

@Yebs

I want people in a place of privilege who have the means to think about it. Manipulate my words as much as you like. That is my stance.

There are very few "privileged people" who don't have mortgages to pay on their second properties. Most people I know with second properties rent them out as holiday homes to get an income to pay the costs, i.e. mortgage, insurance, power, maintenance, rates, etc etc. Yes, I know "some" people only use their holiday homes for themselves and leave them empty for a lot of the time, but I think the number in that position will be tiny and irrelevant.

But we are all privileged in a way, to not be able to relate to the situation these people are in. The people who have been fleeing the Middle East for so long. The difference between us and all of these people is luck. We were lucky to be born here and too many people have the mentality that we are above these people who have ended up in these situations and we aren't.

My holiday home is a Park home. Only family allowed to stay.