To despair at our obession with cars

[SelkieQualia]

They are awful. Noisy. Polluting. 4 million people die every year from the effects of air pollution. Housing developments are built around them, which means that the most vulnerable people in our society - young people, the elderly - are made even more dependant on those who drive.
Why do we tolerate such terrible public transport and cycling infrastructure?

I like public transport, when it works it's much easier. This weekend I'm doing a 200m journey by train, no stress, quicker than driving and with advance tickets no more expensive. However, it's just me and I'll have no luggage. Even though in this instance public transport is good, there are lots of situations when it wouldn't be useful, if i had 3 potential passengers or something bulky I needed to take, for example.

Electric cars are being pushed, but they only really have one benefit of reducing local emissions pollution. They still pollute through tyre wear and brake dust, need charging via fossil fuels, battery mineral mining and disposal is pretty dirty, and they cause the same amount of congestion and take the same parking spaces as petrol cars.

If you have a car you're already paying for the buying/hire cost, maintenance, VED, insurance, depreciation. It's a sunk cost which people tend to ignore, but when looking at something like a train journey it makes it much more attractive when comparing the £20 of petrol 'cost' against a £50 train fare.

I'm angry because old people get stranded because they can't drive any more (often due to poor vision) and they have no other options because public transport is awful - and this means I don't care about people who aren't able bodied?

I’m keeping my car for a few reasons. I have elderly parents who no longer drive, one had an accident recently and there was a 9 hour wait for an ambulance. I have a weekend job that’s 16 miles from where I live. If I took the bus I’d have to go into town, catch another bus to drop off my dog off at daycare then get another to get me to work. My commute would be almost as long as my working day!

I work from home during the week, do try and combine journeys whenever possible and walk wherever I can but I still use the car a couple of times a week and have no intention of changing that.

Also live in a block of flats with no charging points so electric isn’t an option even if I could afford to buy one.

Where I am public transport is expensive. A journey of a little over 3 miles is around £4 and it takes 3 times as long as it doesn’t take a direct route.Runs pretty frequently during the day but I work lates and standing around at 11 o’clock at night with the town centre drunks isn’t something I am willing to do.
I run a small car mostly used for shopping and travel to work. I don’t go into town unless it is a Sunday as I won’t pay the ncp parking fees. Road side parking is free on Sunday or else I wouldn’t go then either.

I live 6 miles from the nearest A road, down single track lanes. Our village (one of the most remote in England) has four buses a week, at off peak times. You'd have to be extremely fit to cycle up the hills round here.
Cars are a necessity here, just to live, and I'm fed up with people in cities (especially London) pontificating about how we should all just stop using cars.

Onlyfoolsnmothers - so you think there are no working parents in london without a car? London is one-off the best places to live without a car.

If you live outside the city, cars are a necessity.

Momicrone

Daimbar, fair enough, it depends where you live, in cities cycling is the quickest mode of transport“

Cycle routes in most towns and cities are dire. Too dangerous.

@Momicrone

Onlyfoolsnmothers - so you think there are no working parents in london without a car? London is one-off the best places to live without a car.

Of course there are and if I didn’t have a car I’d cope but life is easier with it, that’s a fact.

Mrsskyler, not all cities, cycling infrastructure is improving all the time

@SleeplessInEngland

On the plus side, the uptake of electric cars has surpassed all expectations and they're much quieter and cleaner.

And will kill more people (young old and cyclists) who did not the killing machine car behind them.

OP Public transport works in metro areas.
Cycling miles in the wet cold windy weather british weather...

@SelkieQualia

@ Bramshott - this is c what I meant about cycling infrastructure- when there is a good cycle route, short trips can be faster by bike than by car, because there's no stuffing around parking, and you attention held up by traffic.

Yes, but there aren't decent or safe cycle routes near me to get into the nearest town. It's 3.5 miles over crappy, unlit potholed bendy narrow roads.

I can drive to the nearest city in 30 minutes. It’s a 2hr bus trip. Not only do I not have that time to spare, the long bus trip gives me nausea and migraine so I can’t function properly. Basically without a car I am unable to work in the city, which rules out the vast majority of job opportunities.

That’s before you even consider the horrid people on buses. I once saw a lady piss herself sitting on the bus seat. It was dripping on the floor. I have no doubt that someone got on the bus later and sat on the wet seat without realising.

I have a car/public transport dilemma. I live and work by a railway station. Purely for work (20 miles) this is the cost:

Cost and time by car, 45 mins, £4.50 No parking charge

Train, 40 mins £10.50.

The reliability of the train is dubious and the last time I caught one I stood the whole way.

Tell me exactly why I should get rid of my car?

That’s why I said most
We have a 3 mile cycle path along our see front. It’s used as a 3 mile long car park on sunny days and no-one tickets them, it’s mad
It’s the main road into a large resort and you take your life in your hands each time you venture onto it.

My mum’s flat is SW London suburb. Similar sized main road with a proper raised kerb dividing bikes and cars. That’s what’s needed everywhere but councils have been cut to the bone so it won’t happen.

I've never had a car in my nearly 40 years but I do understand I've been fortunate to live in places with good public transport and have jobs that didn't require driving (most of my jobs have actually been in locations where parking would have been a nightmare and public transport was much quicker). I was an early adopter of online shopping. The only times I miss having a car are going to the vet's and buying something large (no trips to Ikea for me).

I do wonder why people insist they need to drive very short distances. There was a huge uproar about changes to parking around my local high street for example. It's served by at least 5 bus routes, near a train station, and actually not in any way a "destination" so the whole point is those shops and restaurants are local to most people in this area and should be an easy 5-15 minute walk.

We've set up a country where it is too inconvenient and expensive for most people to use bikes or public transport.

Buses and trains outside the biggest cities are unreliable and even in big cities they are often expensive. Bristol, for example, has really congested roads but our bus system is terrible, no metro/underground, very few local train services.

Biking means taking your life into your hands as there are very few bike lanes, and those that exist often end abruptly with no way to get back onto the road safely and easily. I do still bike to work though, I just wear tons of reflective and hi-vis so no one has any excuse not to see me- doesn't stop cars pulling out right in front of me.

Walking isn't always easy either due to a lack of safe crossings, even around schools. Despite the new highway code supposedly making it easier to cross the road at junctions, at least half the cars we see each day seem to ignore the new rules.

Yet we build big sprawling new build estates with no space left for shops, doctor's surgeries or schools so that residents have to drive pretty much every time they leave their homes. Shopping centres and out of town entertainment areas are out of town- great if you want to drive out there as there's usually ample parking, but a nightmare for travelling there by public transport and you often have to drive between different shops as there are no pavements or crossings.

Children often can't get into local schools, so they often have to drive past walking distance schools to get to the school they are allocated.

I don't think we will ever get rid of all car journeys, but we do need to cut them down a lot.

@SelkieQualia

I'm angry because old people get stranded because they can't drive any more (often due to poor vision) and they have no other options because public transport is awful - and this means I don't care about people who aren't able bodied?

No chance of getting stranded here. Between me and my partner we have 3 diesel cars and a motorbike

I live in a well-populated residential suburb. There are ZERO cycle paths.
I cannot even cycle to the local shops apart from on an A road or busy rat runs. I could walk, but the pavements are narrow and it is unpleasant with few pedestrian crossings.

In France, residential areas, even the tiniest villages, have pedestrian crossings every 20 metres or so, and pavements have been slightly widened to make them shared pedestrian/cycle spaces. This is totally safe, because the speeding MAMILS don't touch them and stay on the main carriageway, meaning the shared pedestrian/cycle spaces only have slow pootling cyclists on them (with bells etc, which is what bells were invented for).

In the UK, I have to drive to the local shops due to the aforementioned lack of any basic infrastructure, apart from for motorised vehicles.

they have no other options because public transport is awful
Of course it’s awful. The public are on it! Roll on individual self driving pods, that is our solution imo.

It's a vicious cycle.

I don't take the bus because it runs every 2 hours and takes 50 minutes to do a 3.5 mile journey and costs around £5 per person each way. And you can't rely on the bus being on time.

So right now, tog get to work on time,I have to get the 7:23, get dropped off a mile away from work around 8:30 and then walk 15 minutes. So if that bus is 20+ minutes late, I am late for work

Work is only 4 bloody miles away, it's quicker for me to walk than get the bus. Bit do I have an extra 2hr to get to work and back again? No.
When if I get the car, it's 15 mins door to door.

So people take the car, which lessens demand on buses, which results in bus companies reducing the bus down to 4 a day... So you can't get the bus at a good time/after 5:30pm etc

Unless the government are willing to chuck billions at public transport, nothing is going to help.

Time as well as cost. I cannot get to multiple pick up and drops offs in time as public transport takes double the time and no direct routes. It only really works if you are going from one place to another and back again.

My morning journey involves two drop offs and a pick up and then straight on to another location. By car it takes 40 mins to do both drop offs and pick up. On public transport it would take 30 mins to get to the first pick up point, direct transport after that so would then involve a 40 min walk and either have to arrive very early and stand outside in all weathers or arrive late.

You might've got a better response, OP, if you'd led with "To despair at our public transport infrastructure", rather than leading with the "cars are evil" rhetoric. Some people need cars - or, at least, a form of personal transport which has the advantages of a car, even if we could invent something safer, more economical and less polluting. I don't despair at our obsession with cars and I don't consider them to be "awful" or particularly problematically noisy, though they are undeniably polluting.

I do, however, agree with the second part of your OP entirely. Better public transport and better cycling access where possible and appropriate should mean fewer cars on the road, less pollution and less traffic for those who do still need to drive.

It's about putting the blame where it's deserved - on those making planning / policy decisions relating to infrastructure, rather than on individuals. Some individuals may be able to make better choices, but for many people public transport / walking / cycling is not an option, and for some it's never going to be an option. Demonise the government (it won't take much ), not the car owners.

I cycle 25 miles a round trip to work on a ebike, and it's far more pleasant than I thought it would be. I'm not fit although I'm getting fitter, it takes not much more time than driving in traffic and is quicker than the bus!
I think (hope) ebikes help those that want to cycle but are worried about fitness, hills etc. It isn't a public transport solution but could be a valid option for many.