To despair at our obession with cars

[SelkieQualia]

They are awful. Noisy. Polluting. 4 million people die every year from the effects of air pollution. Housing developments are built around them, which means that the most vulnerable people in our society - young people, the elderly - are made even more dependant on those who drive.
Why do we tolerate such terrible public transport and cycling infrastructure?

What gets me is 'out of town' shopping centres and office parks. They become a nightmare to get to unless you drive.

Which then encourages car use. And then the planners also wonder why the high Street is empty.

But that's my whole point! What if other transport options were better, so that not owning a car was a choice that we were free to make?

That last message @Sirzy

People want to use cars , simple .
It's quicker , cheaper , timing is when you want not the timing of train / bus etc etc . Much more comfortable particularly in winter , who wants to stand / walk in the wind / rain .
During the pandemic this was apparent when the local cut through road was closed to vehicle traffic for cyclists , walkers , horse riders etc etc and there was uproar, I've never seen such fierce reactions to one tiny road being closed .
As good as the OP's intentions are I think she is in the minority.

People want to use cars , simple .
It's quicker ,

but its not always quicker and could well be much slower for many shorter journeys. So why do people take a car when its clearly slower and then grumble about how long it took them to drive in the congestion? Many town centres are gridlocked - so why not take a folding bike and cycle the last three miles to the centre? Or get the park and ride bus?

But most people who need an adapted bike will also need access to a car

but most people who can cycle will need access to a car

a car is more expensive than a bike so why use the expense as a reason not to buy a mode of transport?

During the pandemic this was apparent when the local cut through road was closed to vehicle traffic for cyclists , walkers , horse riders etc etc and there was uproar, I've never seen such fierce reactions to one tiny road being closed

yet motorways are closed to traffic which is cycling, horse riding, walkers, mopeds etc. There aren't protests about this, these other forms accept that motorways are for motorised vehicles only. Motorists are great activists and very militant when they think another form of traffic is getting something they're not

I love my car, absolutely love driving but I do agree with you, there needs to be more options. I live semi rurally and there’s a big pressure here to pass your test and get a car ASAP. Without that you’re very limited. I did invest in a beautiful bike which I’ve barely used because I lack confidence on the road. It’d be good to have a network of cycle routes that didn’t share space with cars or pedestrians, and also not at the edge of roads where all of the ruts and holes are. I’d certainly use my bike far more if there was access to those.

Otherwise long journeys are just so expensive by train, for a family of four it’s prohibitive. We’d probably quadruple our costs. Our car is prettt good MPG wise though.

@SelkieQualia

If you are that uncoordinated, then you should not be driving. You would be significantly more dangerous behind the wheel of a car.

Anyway, it's not about MAKING people ride. It's about giving people the OPTION. If you don't want to, don't.

And you don't need bike paths on ALL roads. We just need ONE safe bike corridor between important waypoints.

You have zero idea of the difference between driving and cycling coordination

"a car is more expensive than a bike so why use the expense as a reason not to buy a mode of transport?"

The bike will be an extra. Do you know how much adapted bikes cost?

@bozzabollix

I love my car, absolutely love driving but I do agree with you, there needs to be more options. I live semi rurally and there’s a big pressure here to pass your test and get a car ASAP. Without that you’re very limited. I did invest in a beautiful bike which I’ve barely used because I lack confidence on the road. It’d be good to have a network of cycle routes that didn’t share space with cars or pedestrians, and also not at the edge of roads where all of the ruts and holes are. I’d certainly use my bike far more if there was access to those.

Otherwise long journeys are just so expensive by train, for a family of four it’s prohibitive. We’d probably quadruple our costs. Our car is prettt good MPG wise though.

I know - it's like the current mindset is "cars get the whole road, any other users get that bit that's the rough edge of the sealed part that's half gravel because only cars are real road users".

I know trains are prohibitative, but wouldn't we be better off subsidising those instead of building yet another motorway?

I don’t drive, and I live in an area with excellent, well priced public transport but I often have to travel to areas that are not as well served for work and frankly a journey that would take two hours on public transport can take half an hour in the car. So I would assume that is why we are so dependent-it’s unreasonable to expect buses and trains to go regularly from every area to every nook and cranny in the UK.

@Underhisi

"a car is more expensive than a bike so why use the expense as a reason not to buy a mode of transport?"

The bike will be an extra. Do you know how much adapted bikes cost?

You are really not understanding my point.

I think I do. This thread started off with a reasonable point. It has become calling people snowflakes and people thinking they know more about people's conditions and disabilities than the person with the condition.

I completely recognise the need for cars by some people some of the time, and different circumstances.

But I am depressed by some or many people’s:
Obsession with cars that are bigger and higher spec than they need. Massive Range Rovers and Volvo 4x4 that never go beyond the M25… I do know this, I know my neighbour’s who own them. Too wide to pass for narrow residential roads, massive use of resources to build.

Cars, especially as above, used for short journeys, school run of half a mile etc.

People moving rurally ‘for the lifestyle and lack of pollution’ to places they have to drive for every single thing. Vastly increasing their pollution output over a public transport using Londoner.

@HomeHomeInTheRange I see where you’re coming from, I’ve live in the rural area I live in all my life and have no intention of going anywhere else. My worry is that those who make decisions will treat all car users the same regardless of the need of the car purely because they have no clue what living rurally is like.

@Crimeismymiddlename yes this is the point I often think about, the bus service where I am Is surprisingly good and regular but only goes to certain places, also they could put them on every 5 minutes but it’s the time it takes to actually get anywhere around here and the amount of stops in between

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

I will say in Ops defence whilst the U.K. public transport system is shit and expensive the British do love their cars regardless. They are a status symbol. We also lead a fast paced life here and they are more convenient.

Yes, we could have the public transport of the Swiss and the cycle paths of the Dutch, and yet you'd still have morons with their penis extensions Audis and BMWs.

There is nothing wrong with owning a car, but it’s about time that private car use wasn’t subsided by everyone and the owners started paying the full cost

Fuel tax frozen for 10 years and before that the cost to every tax payer was more than the revenue from VED and fuel ipayroadtax.com/no-such-thing-as-road-tax/when-will-drivers-start-paying-the-full-costs-of-motoring/

Stay in your cars and threaten to be pulled kicking and screaming from them - but start paying the true cost and let public transport be subsidised further instead of cars

For started paying to store a car on the road would, at market value be around £100 per month

Living in London although I have a bike there is no way I would use it to cycle anywhere on the road, it's far too dangerous and I am simply not a good enough cyclist (growing up in this area I only ever rode my bike in the park/ on the pavement as a child, it wasn't safe on the roads). I have only had a car for the last few years, prior to that I used public transport or walked. I do still walk when I can but I can't deny how much easier it is having a car and how much time I save.

[quote AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii]@HomeHomeInTheRange I see where you’re coming from, I’ve live in the rural area I live in all my life and have no intention of going anywhere else. My worry is that those who make decisions will treat all car users the same regardless of the need of the car purely because they have no clue what living rurally is like.[/quote]
Yes, it needs to be nuanced and rational for the circumstances.

My family live very rurally (where I grew up) engaged in a rural economy. Truly terrible public transport, but then does it make sense to lay on a hefty metal bus for 3 passengers?

But urban dwellers skipping off to raise house prices and sit at their laptops while popping to the shops, kids play dates, the GP, everything they did on foot in London (my town) now in a big motor, warbling about lack of pollution makes me cynical.

We need properly rational policies.

And definitely need to get rid of the idea of a car as status symbol.

Anxiety doesn’t help either. I am astounded by the number of women who are terrified to use public transport or let their kids do so. Lack of familiarity plays a big part in that.

@ivykaty44 that is again penalising rural people though? The NHS would also have to start paying me far more in mileage money than it currently pays me for it to be worth my while working. Outside of work I rarely use my car, only for days out, visiting family etc

For started paying to store a car on the road would, at market value be around £100 per month

As was pointed out to me in a similar thread, this will hit low income families hard. Means tested perhaps? Perhaps local availability (or not) of alternative modes of public transport could be part of the algorithm.

I moved back to the Netherlands last year and it's been brilliant. I live in a large town (70k inhabitants) and I can cycle to everything this town has to offer. If I want to go further afield I cycle 5 minutes to a train station where I can go straight to central Amsterdam.

The Dutch are masters of planning, you don't get big out of town shopping centres here because they want everyone to have the ability to cycle to the shops. I live on a big housing estate that has a proper centre with shops, schools, doctors surgery, midwife etc.

We currently don't have a car at all as we simply don't need one. We will be getting an electric cargo bike soon.

Problem is with so many militant motorists, if you suggest using a different type of transport - they decide that it means they must never use the car, ever*

Once you're paying the costs of car ownership, public transport is so expensive.
I gave an example a few pages back. A trip to a nearby city which we tried to arrange by train was 1hr10 in the car, plus park and ride Vs £30 for a return train at a time that didn't work or £60 for a convenient train with one change. We're on a main Trainline. It shouldn't be that expensive it difficult!

We end up driving our older children who are perfectly capable of using public transport for the same reasons. I'd much rather not have a chunk taken out of my day to drive them between their various projects and they'd rather have the independence.