To despair at our obession with cars

[SelkieQualia]

They are awful. Noisy. Polluting. 4 million people die every year from the effects of air pollution. Housing developments are built around them, which means that the most vulnerable people in our society - young people, the elderly - are made even more dependant on those who drive.
Why do we tolerate such terrible public transport and cycling infrastructure?

@WeirdlyKind You can tow with an EV - they have massive torque. The Tesla Y won't take huge loads as it's not a heavy car so braking becomes an issue, but once they start building more of the bigger evs, there will be plenty of tow vehicles.

@Agrudge
Those vehicles aren't much good to you if your licence gets taken away! That's what I mean - no options for those who can't drive.

@Momicrone

Damebarsatemydogsphone, aren't you forgetting that sitting on public transport, you are letting someone else take the stress of driving, you can look out the window or read, and no traffic jams if you're on a train, I know which I prefer, I always feel sorry for car drivers stuck in traffic

I don't get stressed driving and would rather be stuck in traffic in my car than on public transport, I absolutely hate it.

[quote SelkieQualia]@Agrudge
Those vehicles aren't much good to you if your licence gets taken away! That's what I mean - no options for those who can't drive.[/quote]
My bad. I must of skim read it .

I get what you mean now

I won't give my car up because I like the convenience of it.

I was on a bus for the first time in years today as I had to travel into the centre of Edinburgh which is most definitely not car-friendly. Short notice journey - I only found out I needed to go yesterday. Train would have been £40 return, and then I would have needed to get a bus to where i needed to go.

As it was, I drove to the park and ride and got a bus. Which was fine. Except for the LOUD woman who was sitting at the back treating the entire lower deck to her conversation about tints going missing from the salon where she worked and how it was fucking Donna, or maybe fucking Angie, or that fucking cow Bella. Every second word was fucking or fuck. For 20 (fucking) minutes.

@FoxyFoxyLoxy

I was on a bus for the first time in years today as I had to travel into the centre of Edinburgh which is most definitely not car-friendly. Short notice journey - I only found out I needed to go yesterday. Train would have been £40 return, and then I would have needed to get a bus to where i needed to go.

As it was, I drove to the park and ride and got a bus. Which was fine. Except for the LOUD woman who was sitting at the back treating the entire lower deck to her conversation about tints going missing from the salon where she worked and how it was fucking Donna, or maybe fucking Angie, or that fucking cow Bella. Every second word was fucking or fuck. For 20 (fucking) minutes.

I can't bear a journey on public transport without headphones firmly in.

@SleeplessInEngland

On the plus side, the uptake of electric cars has surpassed all expectations and they're much quieter and cleaner.

And much more damaging to the environment in terms of their manufacture...

I don't like driving and I have no interest in cars. But I live fairly rurally and do a job that involves working in multiple locations. It would be literally impossible for me to get to my workplaces on time (or in some cases at all) by public transport.

Some areas it would be really challenging to have a comprehensive enough public transport network. I don't despair that many people find they make life easier, of course if someone drives absolutely everywhere including places they could easily walk then that's an issue, but meh. I don't think electric cars are the environmental saviours some seem to think either.

@Agrudge perhaps read the post as it’s states neither do I

But why did the car come last if it gives freedom and is more convenient?

[quote ivykaty44]@Agrudge perhaps read the post as it’s states neither do I

But why did the car come last if it gives freedom and is more convenient?[/quote]
Because it's in london where traffic is always shit.

You can tow with an EV - they have massive torque.

Torque isn’t the issue.

A lot of smaller EVs are not type approved for towing. More of the larger ones are, but they are just not affordable for many (most?) people. In addition, towing massively decreases the range, which might make it impractical for some people.

Because it's in london where traffic is always shit.

So there is no congestion in the rest of the U.K.? No traffic gridlock 🤔😂

I didn't learn to drive until my 20s. Everything took so much longer on public transport. I had to get lifts to work, Wenden I got my first job, as there were no buses there.

I think many people who decry car use are lucky enough to wfh or live somewhere with good links. I also think a lot of mn has no idea about the places where pt assumes you all live and work fairly local, so doesn't link up across counties.

My journey to work is about 20 miles. Takes me about 40 minutes in the car. I do not live rurally. No one I know works near me, so car sharing is out. Not allowed to wfh.

By pt, I would have to get a bus to the train station (if any buses were running at 530), then a train. Then another train, to be in work by 8. Then in reverse. Not sure how I'd get dc to the cm by 7am in any of that though. Or how I'd do pick ups.

Where I live, I can get a bus to one town (10 miles away) every 30 minutes. No buses to another town(11 miles away). One bus an hour to a closer town(6 miles away). To visit parents (12 miles) it's a 20 minute walk to a bus stop, then 40 minute bus ride. I can drive it in 20 minutes.

Like someone upthread said, it's not just getting places but how much time you actually have. Even with 2 adults living here and driving, the kids can't do the activities they want, because of time. Without cars, they'd do nothing during the week. And dc 2 wouldn't be able to theirs at all.

@ivykaty44

Because it's in london where traffic is always shit.

So there is no congestion in the rest of the U.K.? No traffic gridlock 🤔😂

You asked why the car came last In the video.

I don't believe either public transport or bike infrastructure are really what is needed. They are fine as far as they go, but can't address the real issue which is around things like community planning, the decline of villages, towns and even smaller cities, and so on.

The most basic issue is that most people do not live within walking distance of where they work, walking distance of shopping, walking distance of entertainment, walking distance of at least some family and friends.

These things are due to the movable workforce and the way communities have developed around the car and public transport, to the point where many people cannot even afford to live within a short distance of work. This is only possible because workers can be brought into these areas. Zoning regulations and building up new developments without adequate infrastructure are also elements.

Bikes are relatively cheap to use but not everyone can. Public transport is a logistical and material expense. Walking is pretty free and cities, towns, and villages developed with walking as the organizing feature for thousands of years. And they still could be to a much much greater extent than they are now.

You asked why the car came last In the video.

Yes, because it was said a car was more convenient- how can it be more convenient if it takes so long 🤷‍♀️

@Octomingo

I didn't learn to drive until my 20s. Everything took so much longer on public transport. I had to get lifts to work, Wenden I got my first job, as there were no buses there.

I think many people who decry car use are lucky enough to wfh or live somewhere with good links. I also think a lot of mn has no idea about the places where pt assumes you all live and work fairly local, so doesn't link up across counties.

My journey to work is about 20 miles. Takes me about 40 minutes in the car. I do not live rurally. No one I know works near me, so car sharing is out. Not allowed to wfh.

By pt, I would have to get a bus to the train station (if any buses were running at 530), then a train. Then another train, to be in work by 8. Then in reverse. Not sure how I'd get dc to the cm by 7am in any of that though. Or how I'd do pick ups.

Where I live, I can get a bus to one town (10 miles away) every 30 minutes. No buses to another town(11 miles away). One bus an hour to a closer town(6 miles away). To visit parents (12 miles) it's a 20 minute walk to a bus stop, then 40 minute bus ride. I can drive it in 20 minutes.

Like someone upthread said, it's not just getting places but how much time you actually have. Even with 2 adults living here and driving, the kids can't do the activities they want, because of time. Without cars, they'd do nothing during the week. And dc 2 wouldn't be able to theirs at all.

Yeah, the only place I've found public transport better for day to day stuff is London. Other than that aside from if you live near a train station and can walk there, you end up taking buses as well as the train, perhaps a bus the other end as well- much more time and really pricey these days. I would have to get a bus and a train, the quickest assuming both were on time would be around an hour, cost £20 plus now or 25 mins by car.

Wanttomarryamillionaire- I use public transport and I'm not anti social, do you think you might be the anti social one?

@JudgeJ

Well said. MN is the place to be if you want to hear middle class privileged dilemmas and shrieks of ‘won’t someone think of the children?’. Everyone on here hates every comfort in life that they are afforded for simply being born in the Western Hemisphere. Wonder how some people get through the day.

Ugh, I knew everyone would get on and bleat about how they are a special little snowflake that needs a car. For the last time, it's not about taking away all cars. It's about having a few other options IN ADDITION to cars.

@MangyInseam

I don't believe either public transport or bike infrastructure are really what is needed. They are fine as far as they go, but can't address the real issue which is around things like community planning, the decline of villages, towns and even smaller cities, and so on.

The most basic issue is that most people do not live within walking distance of where they work, walking distance of shopping, walking distance of entertainment, walking distance of at least some family and friends.

These things are due to the movable workforce and the way communities have developed around the car and public transport, to the point where many people cannot even afford to live within a short distance of work. This is only possible because workers can be brought into these areas. Zoning regulations and building up new developments without adequate infrastructure are also elements.

Bikes are relatively cheap to use but not everyone can. Public transport is a logistical and material expense. Walking is pretty free and cities, towns, and villages developed with walking as the organizing feature for thousands of years. And they still could be to a much much greater extent than they are now.

Thankyou! This is what I mean. They're are always jobs/activities that need to be done in person, and there are always going to be people who need to travel in a car for this. However, we could still do a lot better when designing our community spaces. We could make them much nicer places to walk or bike around in, for those people who want to, rather than blooding things so that you MUST use a car to get around.

Things that we'd have to look carefully at for that would be stuff like zoning and housing in multiple income brackets available, lots of mixed areas of shops and housing.

Also, contrary to popular belief, big cities like London are not more efficient at that stuff. At a certain point they become so big that efficiency starts to decrease. So a change to the economy would also be in order. For rural areas people need to have viable villages that can provide services for the surrounding countryside.

The UK is better at some of this than places like North America but it could still improve a lot.

Where I live there is no option but to drive. There are some small convenience type shops in my small town but they are very expensive and are limited in what they sell. To get a bus to the nearest supermarket would mean a 20 min walk to and from the bus stop to the supermarket, not possible with a full weekly shop on the way back.

My place of work and where my horses are kept are not at all accessible by public transport. So I wouldn’t be able to get to them at all.

You’d have to have a death wish to cycle around here, it’s all twisty roads, only just wide enough for two cars, lots of hills and corners everywhere.

It’s either own a car or be stuck in a very small town with very limited facilities.