Compassion & media coverage towards Ukraine but not the Middle East/Africa

[babyhaha]

This is something that has been on my mind for a little while so hopefully I'm able to word it correctly.

Since the invasion in Ukraine there has been constant threads about this on MN. This is also something that is constantly spoken about and written about in the media as it rightly should be. This is a major thing that's going on and people should obviously be informed about this.

However, why is this not the case when there's constant wars happening in the Middle East and Africa? Iraq, Palastine, Syria, Sudan, Afghanistan etc the list really does go on. There's still innocent people in these countries that are getting killed for no reason. Now I've personally never seen threads about these countries on MN but as I don't spend too much time I'm on here, I could be wrong. What I am certain about, is these countries BARELY get any media attention from the West, if ever at all. Why is that?!

Is this because Ukraine is a European country and not a third world country where things like these are 'expected to happen?' Do people feel that as the people in these countries are minorities that they don't deserve the same sort of empathy that the Ukrainians are getting? I really am interested to know why there's such a massive difference in terms of media coverage and general compassion.

It's actually interesting because just a few days ago, supermodel Bella Hadid stated that Muslim suffering deserves the same level of outrage as Ukraine and she is absolutely right. And to those who may say I'm exaggerating or this isn't the case, I've linked a Twitter thread below which has clips of the most racist Ukraine coverage on TV and the wording used in each and every clip is very telling. I'd be very interested in hearing people's thoughts.

twitter.com/alanrmacleod/status/1497974245737050120?s=21

[quote Villagewaspbyke]@babyhaha No you definitely did start talking about Ukrainian refugees- you started a thread on mumsnet about it.

If you really do want to help them you will stop attacking those who want to help them.[/quote]
@Villagewaspbyke maybe read my OP again? I speak about innocent people getting killed in all of these places so why is there more media outrage for one and not all. That was my point, there were no mention about refugees

[quote Villagewaspbyke]@babyhaha this thread makes me uncomfortable as it is trying to take away assistance from those who desperately need it.[/quote]
@Villagewaspbyke it's not taking away from anything. This is the Internet, if something makes you uncomfortable then just close the tab and enjoy your evening. This thread is not stopping you from doing anything you're able to do to support Ukrainian victims

@PurpleHills - why when Ukrainians desperately need help is this a good time to think about how we have helped others less rather than focus on helping them? Black Lives Matter protests are to protest black victims of police brutality not to start highlighting victims of other races.

I remember the fall of the Berlin wall as the first major political event of my life. I was a young teenager and had been interested in the 1987 general election but that was basically a non-event, the government got back in and nothing changed.

When I saw the wall being torn down I knew that the world was in a different place - crazy to think now that one of Europe's great capitals was a divided city, split down the middle ... then the Soviet Union broke up and we began a new phase in European history, leading to Eastern and Western Europe coming together under the EU umbrella.

Now Russia has invaded a peaceful neighbour with the apparent intention of annexing lands they consider historically "Russian" which has very strong echoes of Hitler in 1938. It feels like the Cold War is back and World War II is back.

Ever since I can remember, the Middle East has been at war. While the wall was coming down, Lebanon had been at war for over a decade. Before that, Oman. In current times, Yemen. Long, multi-faceted, insoluble conflicts. 15 or so years ago, Britain helped to topple a bloody dictator in Iraq and it turned out, awful as he was, he was stopping war from breaking out. Syria is similar. No conflict in this region feels unexpected. The war in Ukraine does; it has genuinely shaken me.

I appreciate all the comments especially the ones that highlighted the threat of nukes and Ukraine being so close to us that it makes it more scary. When things happen so far away it feels like it's happening on another planet and there's not much that we can do. It also seems that it's easier or a natural human response to feel immediate empathy/interest when things are happening to someone that looks like you/lives like you. I can't say I agree with that myself but interesting to know that this is how so many think.
I'll continue to keep spreading awareness for the Middle East/Africa as well as Ukraine so thanks again for all the comments.
Definitely been an eye opener

@babyhaha you said you didn’t start talking about refugees- clearly as I said that’s not true as you started a thread on mumsnet about it.

You are trying to stop people helping Ukrainian refugees,whether due to external influence or personal prejudice who knows. Of course I will not be dissuaded from helping others but clearly your intention is to dissuade others which could have real consequences to very vulnerable people.

“@ Cheshirecatwoman
Stop tryna make this a race thing man. People on this thread have LITERALLY said there's more empathy/interest/compassion when someone that looks like you is going through something. Many posters have said it may not be right but it's kind of a natural thing. So why you acting like I just started talking about race out of my arse. Seriously have a good evening”

Apologies if I’ve misinterpreted the point of your original post but I thought you were implying that the difference in reporting and empathy etc was most likely down to race?

I was disagreeing that it was mainly down to race, but other factors already mentioned.

I do appreciate the question though and enjoy hearing other peoples opinions and views and debating them. I’m not saying I’m right but just trying to be honest with my views.

It's not one thing, it's many reasons:

1. They are being invaded by what seemed like an unstoppable force by someone who wants to steal their land and liberty (the 'little guy' in the conflict).

2. The invader is Russia who has been a threat to the UK since 1945 and in the minds of many of the time.. as far back as the Russian revolution.

My parents generation would say they hoped they would see Christmas and not be nuked by Russia. They had this hope year after year... for decades. It's easy to forget or perhaps be unaware if you are say under 40 but Russia has been a threat for all of the formative years of the older generations.

3. If Ukraine falls, it is feared the Russian threat will not stop there and edge closer to us.

4. They refugees are women and children. Read many, many threads on here and there is a near universal opinion that men are always seen as a threat when compared to women. cross-reference the sex assaults at German new years parties after they let a huge number of male asylum seekers in just a few years ago.
   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany

5. They are close enough for anyone of us to drive to with supplies and support through countries that we would have no fear crossing their borders.

6. The invasion is by a foreign power. You do not see the same sympathy for Russians fleeing Russia right now even though they have the same threats as you mentioned earlier (being drafted into the armed forces). I guess there is a feeling that by running away from conflict within your own country you are leaving others to deal with the mess.

Not sure the similar culture and whiteness argument is really convincing, on any other day anti-eastern european comments are abound.

Ah Bella Hadid the great geo-political commentator. She won't remember the Bosnian War...neither do you clearly OP. And is obviously to ignorant to look beyond what has passed recently but not in her own living memory. The Muslim Bosnians were persecuted horrifically and was it not one of the worst cases of ethnic cleansing the in the past 50 years. The coverage was huge, it dominated the news for years and the global outrage and sympathy for the Muslim population there was massive. I can remember so much of the coverage and underatood that it was a section of that cpuntry being persecuted because of their religion and I was barely a teenager.

Also and I think this was prior to Bosnia I remember the horrific wars in Seira Leone and Rawanda and the genocide that took place there and I was even younger then. The coverage on the news was intense and I can fundraising events for the victims of those wars (if you remember tthe genocide and brutality aas staggering) taking place at school.

Looking at more recent times the coverage and of Syria and Afganistan and the war in Gaza has dominated headlines and social media on and off for years. You have to remember as well the war in Syria is 10 years old now and started within the context of the West having recently gotten involved in conflicts in the Middle East and Northern Africa and frankly did more harm than good - rise of Isis, failed states etc. So have tended towards a more hands of approach than I think they would have liked.

Going

Definition of Whataboutery;

Edward Lucas's 2008 Economist article associated the tactic specifically with the Soviet Union, stating "Soviet propagandists during the cold war were trained in a tactic that their western interlocutors nicknamed 'whataboutism'. Any criticism of the Soviet Union (Afghanistan, martial law in Poland, imprisonment of dissidents, censorship) was met with a 'What about...' (apartheid South Africa, jailed trade-unionists, the Contras in Nicaragua, and so forth)." Lucas recommended two methods of properly countering whataboutism: to "use points made by Russian leaders themselves" so that they cannot be applied to the West, and for Western nations to engage in more self-criticism of their own media and government.[4]

I've definitely noticed a shift in tone/language used and compassion from the main stream media usual suspects

side eyes DM

YANBU

There is such a thing as compassion fatigue.

Also, I've noticed a very interesting difference between those fleeing from Ukraine and those from other areas. The Ukranians leaving their country are predominantly women and children whereas from many of the areas you mention they are usually young men, hellbent on getting to the UK while the women and children are left behind to face what?Rape? Death?

It’s relating to the people and their way of life it’s not about skin color. I remember the thread where people were aghast at people selling their daughters to survive for example. It’s unthinkable in our culture and so far removed from our way of life that it’s hard to see ourselves in these people. The whole culture is so different.It’s not right and everyone deserves compassion but it’s human nature to put ourselves in the position and have sympathy for those we can see could be us.

I think the difference OP is that our government's and/or our allies are the ones bombing or invading countries in the middles east etc. Plus clearly a racial element. Plus geopolitics. To hear US politicians who were behind the invasion of Iraq criticise Putin for invading a sovereign country is mind blowing. Do they not have any powers of self reflection .

I haven't read all comments, so apologies if anyone has mentioned it before, what about displaying support for other countries in sport? Many teams and players got penalised for showing support to Palestine for example. Now suddenly it's ok, even encouraged to display support for Ukraine. Algeria got banned for 10 years for refusing to play Israel, Poles are heroes to do the same to Russia. Very double standards.

I don’t think it makes you a bad person for being more aware because it is closer to home, in our own continent. I’ve known countless Russian and some Ukrainian people. I hear Russian spoken about five times a day.. it feels very relevant and very here. The Cold War effected all of Europe a lot. So many of my friends are from ex soviet countries and have so much to say about Russia even if they don’t know much about Ukraine.

I also think Zelensky is a HUGE part of why we care so much. If it were one of the previous prime ministers - more corrupt, less pleasant back story - it wouldn’t be so clear who was the good guy vs bad guy. It’s the Russian premise for the invasion - “denatizification” - that makes the whole thing so clearly good vs bad because it’s so clearly bullshit. That and the troops now imposing martial law in Russia, going through people’s phones to see if they’ve discussed Ukraine …

If we look at Syria - we hated ISIS but Assad was also terrible so what did we want? What was the good outcome? I know there were some pro democracy smaller factions but there was no realistic chance of them winning. What we wanted to happen was a pipe dream and would have involved huge western interference in a country (also bad in the eyes of many / most) and might have been misguided anyway.

Afghanistan - again, I am appalled by the actions of the Taliban but the previous government didn’t have enough support of the people and there was a lot of corruption. It was only upheld by US forces anyway. Again.. it’s a disaster and it makes me sad but there is no clear answer there.

I’m racking my brain trying to think up any other recent conflict that has been so clear cut in terms of Good vs Bad (and not to say Russians are bad but Putin and the ones who orchestrated this are). Everyone rallied around Aung San Suu Kyi because that seemed clear cut.. but then her recent actions suggest otherwise.

I hate the implication of threads like this, that any difference in how we treat people must be due to racism and any arguments to the contrary are seen as pathetic attempts to disguise obvious racism. Racism is a problem, not many will deny that but making everything about race and dismissing other factors is as dangerous as ignoring race.

The UK and Ukraine are both European countries. It makes absolute sense that those countries on the same continent as you would take a greater interest in any conflict and want to help more. In many senses they have a greater obligation to get involved as they are the most obvious sources of support and help and also if the conflict was to grow further then neighbouring countries and those in the same continent are likely to be greatly impacted.

Finally, it generally makes sense that refugees who plan on returning to their own country would like to stay somewhere safe, close to their home country and somewhere that is culturally similar to what they know. That is certainly what I would want if the UK was at war and I had to seek refuge elsewhere. Europe obviously represents this for Ukrainians, but less so for people from other parts of the world where other countries would seem to be a more obvious place of refuge.

Um because the fighting in Ukraine is literally on the borders of Europe and could easily spill into western countries. Russia is already threatening to fire nukes at us. Of course I’m more concerned when it might affect my own life in my own country. Fighting in the Middle East etc doesn’t affect my everyday life, apart from news reports I don’t even know it’s happening.

@JasperHale

I haven't read all comments, so apologies if anyone has mentioned it before, what about displaying support for other countries in sport? Many teams and players got penalised for showing support to Palestine for example. Now suddenly it's ok, even encouraged to display support for Ukraine. Algeria got banned for 10 years for refusing to play Israel, Poles are heroes to do the same to Russia. Very double standards.

This is an interesting point

The people feeling Ukraine are predominantly women, children and the elderly. They are leaving a very active war zone and the men are staying to fight and defend it.

The people arriving on boats from FRANCE are overwhelmingly male, who have left their women and children behind in war zones and are fleeing...well... France.

They are economic migrants and I'm not saying they don't deserve any sympathy but it is a lot less sympathy in most people's minds when you're trying to leave France than when you're trying to leave Ukraine. Especially when they're mainly men and their culture has women so low down the pecking order that they didn't bother to try and bring the women to safety too.

Boat loads of young fit men, leaving women behind to be raped and die in their country or origin.

It's totally different.

@lookforthesun

The people feeling Ukraine are predominantly women, children and the elderly. They are leaving a very active war zone and the men are staying to fight and defend it.

The people arriving on boats from FRANCE are overwhelmingly male, who have left their women and children behind in war zones and are fleeing...well... France.

They are economic migrants and I'm not saying they don't deserve any sympathy but it is a lot less sympathy in most people's minds when you're trying to leave France than when you're trying to leave Ukraine. Especially when they're mainly men and their culture has women so low down the pecking order that they didn't bother to try and bring the women to safety too.

Boat loads of young fit men, leaving women behind to be raped and die in their country or origin.

It's totally different.

Yes that’s exactly how I feel too.

I just don’t feel their situation has the same level of urgency and cannot understand why, if the situation they are leaving is that bad, they would choose to leave their children and wives behind to put up with it. Especially when it could take years to bring them over. And many destroy their passports and documents. Not to mention paying ££s to illegal traffickers, It’s a completely different situation and there is no comparison.

They may be better doing a shorter journey to a neighbouring country instead with their family members and applying for sssylum using the proper channels. People would then probably have more sympathy.

Despite all the words and newsprint Britain is only accepting a tiny number of refugee Ukrainians. The channel is still open and very very few of the migrants/asylum seekers/economic migrants etc are being returned.
No evidence of pro Whiteness in access to the UK.

It doesn't sit right with me either op. The boycott thing in particular drives me mad with the hypocrisy, the shit that corporations get up to, particularly in SA and Africa are just gut wrenching yet apparently selling their products in Moscow is a step too far.

Fuck that shit.