Compassion & media coverage towards Ukraine but not the Middle East/Africa

[babyhaha]

This is something that has been on my mind for a little while so hopefully I'm able to word it correctly.

Since the invasion in Ukraine there has been constant threads about this on MN. This is also something that is constantly spoken about and written about in the media as it rightly should be. This is a major thing that's going on and people should obviously be informed about this.

However, why is this not the case when there's constant wars happening in the Middle East and Africa? Iraq, Palastine, Syria, Sudan, Afghanistan etc the list really does go on. There's still innocent people in these countries that are getting killed for no reason. Now I've personally never seen threads about these countries on MN but as I don't spend too much time I'm on here, I could be wrong. What I am certain about, is these countries BARELY get any media attention from the West, if ever at all. Why is that?!

Is this because Ukraine is a European country and not a third world country where things like these are 'expected to happen?' Do people feel that as the people in these countries are minorities that they don't deserve the same sort of empathy that the Ukrainians are getting? I really am interested to know why there's such a massive difference in terms of media coverage and general compassion.

It's actually interesting because just a few days ago, supermodel Bella Hadid stated that Muslim suffering deserves the same level of outrage as Ukraine and she is absolutely right. And to those who may say I'm exaggerating or this isn't the case, I've linked a Twitter thread below which has clips of the most racist Ukraine coverage on TV and the wording used in each and every clip is very telling. I'd be very interested in hearing people's thoughts.

twitter.com/alanrmacleod/status/1497974245737050120?s=21

[quote ReadtheFT]@emuloc, not sure if you know about the trip those refugees have to make to arrive to a safe country, but sade to say it is not a journey I would do taking my wife and young children and elderly parents with me. It is not so hard to understand that the man would take the dangerous journey woth the hope of having the family join them in a easier way later? Or those refugees are all monsters that hate women, that the way ment posters seem to think.
And lets finish already with the narrative of the "heroic" ukranian men staying back to fight, they are forced to stay.
Not to mention that when other men in other countries stay and fight they are called terrorist.
No, people dont care about refugees from Africa and middle east because they are a different colour and different religion. So many contorsions to try and explain it otherwise, but thats all there is.
A bit more empathy for something happening nearer, sure. But not this level of disgusting double standards and blatant racism , including by reporters.[/quote]
For those posters, who seem unable, or unwilling for whatever reason, to see why some men will be travelling alone. It really is not that hard to understand.

@JasperHale

I haven't read all comments, so apologies if anyone has mentioned it before, what about displaying support for other countries in sport? Many teams and players got penalised for showing support to Palestine for example. Now suddenly it's ok, even encouraged to display support for Ukraine. Algeria got banned for 10 years for refusing to play Israel, Poles are heroes to do the same to Russia. Very double standards.

Shit like this drives me mad. I don't give a fuck if people call it whataboutary because asking "what about X?" Is fair enough.

I think some of it is about who Putin is too, or what he represents. Unlike leaders from distant continents that many people first hear of when a conflict starts we are very familiar with him.

He's been in power for 22 years and is sort of 'one of us'. By that I mean a western leader who we are used to seeing at global stuff along with all the other familiar leaders of their day.

Even though he has escalated a lot in recent years and has always been the 'dodgy uncle' of the family we should have seen it coming. I think there was a feeling that European leaders who rub shoulders with Merkel, Macron, our own PM etc...just don't do things like invade sovereign countries next door and threaten to start WW3.

The commonalities with the rise of Nazi Germany are there, not saying it's exactly the same but enough so that it feels like something most of us learnt about as history could happen again. I think most of us naively thought something like that would be impossible on our doorstep again.

Sorry if that's not expressed very well, I'm a bit sleep deprived this morning. I just think there are a few factors that have particularly grabbed our attention and shook us out of a complacency that was there before.

Since 9/11 we've been fed the idea that Islam is problematic and impossible to coexist with western ideals, despite the face that there are millions of peaceful Muslims just getting in with their lives. It serves those in power well to distract us with this and weakens are sympathy for Muslim countries. I keep thinking about the Iraqi war where we were Russia in the equation, freeing the country from a corrupt government and extremists which is the same reason Russia is giving when realy it was about oil, personal vendetta on Bush part and the fact they wanted to be seen as doing something after 9/11.

The Islamophobia being displayed on this thread is disgraceful.

I've not read any of the posts on this thread, and can only reflect on my own perspective. But there is a huge difference in the level of coverage and detail on the Ukraine war compared to what was happening in Syria or Iraq for example. All the coverage I'm exposed to is Putin/Russia=Bad and Ukraine=Good (that would also be my personal point of view too).

For Iraq we were initially fed a consistent message in the press of Iraq=Bad and US/UK=Mostly Good ... that changed over time.

This is classic imperialism. Whatever about what happens in the short term, it looks like Russian/Putin is out to destroy Ukraine as a state and Russify the area. In the past for Russia, it has meant removing/killing the local population and moving in pro-Russian forces and citizens on a large scale.

This is what happen to the ethnic Germans in Eastern Europe after WW2, they were eliminated (of course the Germans planned to do the same to Slavs if they had won the war).

It is exactly we (I'm English) have tried to do in the past in South Africa, Australia, Ireland, etc. I think it is better media coverage today!

Also, nobody seems to care that Ukrainian president is very pro Israel, but doesn't like the same being done to his country. He said in the past that no matter if Israel is right or wrong, Ukraine supports it, and only day or two ago, that Ukraine is like Israel, defends it's own country. So it's ok if Muslims are being murdered in Palestine, but not ok for Ukraine to be invaded by Russia.

Before anyone says anything, I am not Muslim, and none of it is ok, but some deaths are more ok than some others

@emuloc

The Islamophobia being displayed on this thread is disgraceful.

I've worked and lived in Islamic countries, in various regions. I am non-religious. I prefer any country where the state religion has less of an impact on me, so that would be liberal multi-faith (Asian) Islamic countries or Western Christian countries. I am less keen on conservative Islamic countries, which describes most of the Middle East except Lebanon. I feel less kinship with people from those countries because their way of life is different to mine.

Is that wrong?

Sick to death of hearing this. There has been just as much compassion for refugees from Syria/Afghanistan/Whatever.

The difference is quite clear - the threat of NATO Vs Russia to the wider world. If people can't get their head round that then what's the point in arguing.

There is such desperation to find racism where it isn't. Must be fucking exhausting tbh.

As a person of colour I can see the perspective that some of the commentary (notably from US correspondents) does seem to regard Ukraine as a more important conflict as those impacted are white. However, generally most refugees stay close to home, so they flee to next door countries. Which is exactly what you see happening in Ukraine. My family is Tamil by origin and during the Tamil conflict most displaced people went to India, with quite some numbers coming to the UK and the USA. In practice the UK does take quite large numbers of refugees, and did from the war in Sri Lanka and it is reasonable that it takes more from a European conflict than from a Middle Eastern or African conflict. It is closer geographically and culturally to the UK. it also took quite large numbers of Kosovan refugees during the war in this region and Bosnian refugees as well.

@AledsiPad

Sick to death of hearing this. There has been just as much compassion for refugees from Syria/Afghanistan/Whatever.

The difference is quite clear - the threat of NATO Vs Russia to the wider world. If people can't get their head round that then what's the point in arguing.

There is such desperation to find racism where it isn't. Must be fucking exhausting tbh.

What is the difference refusing to play football against Israel by Algeria, and against Russia by Poland? Difference is Algeria got banned for 10 years, Poland was branded heroes. It's just a small example, Scotland I believe was closest to home to be penalised for the "wrong" support

It's funny how you are talking about islamophobia while both Ukraine and Poland have established Muslim communities longer than Britain has.
Where were you when Chechnyan refugees were fleeing?
Are they not proper muslim or they are victims of Russia so not good victims?

How many Ukrainian refugees are the rich Arab states taking in? What about other rich countries like Japan? The UK has taken tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of refugees over the years, mostly from the Middle East and Africa. Compare that to other rich countries that take hardly any and I think you'll find there is a lot of generosity and support from the UK given to people fleeing war in the Middle East/Africa. It's never good enough though is it!

I think there are a lot of elements to this.

Part of it is that with some places, there has been political and social breakdown for so long that they are in a constant state of war. And no one really knows what to do about it that would work or be sustainable long term.

People feel badly for those caught up in it and want to help them, But there is no shock or surprise when things are bad in a place where there is already so many problems, be they ongoing warfare, corruption, famine, tribalism, gangs, whatever. We expect war under those circumstances.

It also fits in well to the sense that there is one "side" being bad to another "side" which is blameless.

Ukraine is different in that many people see them as having stable lifestyles they imagine are much like their own. And so they can picture what it would be like to suddenly have to pick up from their regular lives and have to run or fight. I think additionally it is a wake up call or some that the stability they thought Europe had is a lot more tenuous than they realized.

@AledsiPad

Sick to death of hearing this. There has been just as much compassion for refugees from Syria/Afghanistan/Whatever.

The difference is quite clear - the threat of NATO Vs Russia to the wider world. If people can't get their head round that then what's the point in arguing.

There is such desperation to find racism where it isn't. Must be fucking exhausting tbh.

Yeah, I agree with this actually. Overall I saw huge support for Syrian refugees.

There is often less support, or maybe better to say different support, for economic migrants.

And there are reasons for that. There are solid reasons economic migrants are not normally considered refugees, even when people are very sympathetic. There is just no way any western country, even a very wealthy one, is in a position to accept every person who might want to come to seek their fortune. It's not just about whether such people would contribute to society either, it's a lot more to do with material infrastructure, and also the infrastructure of community life. Both of which are required to welcome newcomers.

I do kind of which the sport stuff would stop. Either we make international sport above political differences, or not, and in the latter case we should apply it a lot more widely.

When it comes to the Middle East and Africa, there is a certain amount of fatigue regarding coverage, and awareness that has nothing to do with race. Those regions are, and have been in a perpetual state of famine and warfare for as long as anyone can remember. Status Quo is generally not news.

@KnotKnot

I've not read any of the posts on this thread, and can only reflect on my own perspective. But there is a huge difference in the level of coverage and detail on the Ukraine war compared to what was happening in Syria or Iraq for example. All the coverage I'm exposed to is Putin/Russia=Bad and Ukraine=Good (that would also be my personal point of view too).

For Iraq we were initially fed a consistent message in the press of Iraq=Bad and US/UK=Mostly Good ... that changed over time.

This is classic imperialism. Whatever about what happens in the short term, it looks like Russian/Putin is out to destroy Ukraine as a state and Russify the area. In the past for Russia, it has meant removing/killing the local population and moving in pro-Russian forces and citizens on a large scale.

This is what happen to the ethnic Germans in Eastern Europe after WW2, they were eliminated (of course the Germans planned to do the same to Slavs if they had won the war).

It is exactly we (I'm English) have tried to do in the past in South Africa, Australia, Ireland, etc. I think it is better media coverage today!

Yes, several hundred years ago. Or is it the sins of the fathers and seven generations onwards?

@Brainwave89

As a person of colour I can see the perspective that some of the commentary (notably from US correspondents) does seem to regard Ukraine as a more important conflict as those impacted are white. However, generally most refugees stay close to home, so they flee to next door countries. Which is exactly what you see happening in Ukraine. My family is Tamil by origin and during the Tamil conflict most displaced people went to India, with quite some numbers coming to the UK and the USA. In practice the UK does take quite large numbers of refugees, and did from the war in Sri Lanka and it is reasonable that it takes more from a European conflict than from a Middle Eastern or African conflict. It is closer geographically and culturally to the UK. it also took quite large numbers of Kosovan refugees during the war in this region and Bosnian refugees as well.

Absolutely. And the Hong Kong And Vietnamese refugees in the 1970s and HK residents today. Unfortunately there are a number of Grievance Moaners who would love to stir up racism.

So what about the israel situation, thats not hundreds of years ago. It is ongoing. Condemn by international bodies, human right violations, aphartheid state etc etc.
Yet football players not allowed to side with Gaza, for example. How is this different from the russia/ukraine situation?

I think it's predominantly three things

They are geographically closer to us and part of Europe. It's human nature to feel more impacted by things that are happening closer to home.

People are able to understand it, it's a war of aggression rather than a complex civil war.

It's primarily women and children.

It's not new or clever to observe that we're more likely to respond to events that are closer to us and more likely to affect us directly and to people who are more like us. It's entirely normal behaviour for human beings.

Our minds simply aren't designed to perfectly contextualise and feel the exact "fair" degree of sympathy for all of them.

(for reference, my research specialism is comparative studies of global responses to genocide)

Please see the movie The Kashmir FIles.
While it is a movie it is based on true events. It gave me a completely different understanding of some of the things discussed on this thread. I am so confused. Would like to discuss this further if anyone is interested

@lonelyapple

How many Ukrainian refugees are the rich Arab states taking in? What about other rich countries like Japan? The UK has taken tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of refugees over the years, mostly from the Middle East and Africa. Compare that to other rich countries that take hardly any and I think you'll find there is a lot of generosity and support from the UK given to people fleeing war in the Middle East/Africa. It's never good enough though is it!

Most Arab states refuse to acknowledge refugee status. I think other countries signed up to a UN charter which most Arab states didn't. The two exceptions I can think of are Jordan and Lebanon. The latter dealing with its own internal conflicts is not the safe haven most refugees are searching for.