Is manipulation normal for 6/7/8 year olds?

[DrivingMeMadWithManipulation]

DD is 7, Year 3 but been doing this for around a year. Just want to know if it’s normal?

If she can’t get her own way she’ll say something like “If you make me do that I’ll never eat a single thing again then I’ll die and you’ll be sad” or “I’m not doing, if you make me I’ll tell my teacher you hit me” or my absolutely favourite “I’m telling school I want to live with daddy, then I won’t have to do it”

It’s usually around doing things around the house like tidying up her toys, or homework.

I’m very none committal, and tell her to go ahead, she usually behaves after that. But it’s driving me mad, it’s all the time at the moment, over everything from getting dressed or going to bed to tidying up.

She’s been known to say things like “I am taking your phone and you’re not getting back until you stop asking me”. I of course don’t let her take my phone, and I shut that down with removal of screentime.

She’s very demanding in general at the moment, and I just want to know if it’s the age or it’s something I need to discuss with someone like school?

She can also be very sarcastic if I ask her to do something like put the light on or close the door, or she’ll say “And what are you going to do for me?”

She’s an only child and due to covid restrictions I don’t get to speak to her friends parents so can’t compare notes. It’s also only me and her at home.

If it helps she is suspected dyslexic and dyspraxic/DCD (awaiting formal diagnosis) and absolutely hates school, it’s a school in general issue rather than the school as I changed her school for another reason and she’s still the same. She does do activities outside of school she loves, and I have threatened to stop these if she carries on which usually means she behaves.

She’s come back from her dads tonight and within 5 minutes was manipulating me, refusing to eat and telling me if I don’t let her have pudding she’ll tell her teacher tomorrow that I made her eat food (ExH doesn’t feed her so don’t suggest she’s not hungry, she is!)

So AIBU to ask if it’s the age and normal?

Not normal for my kids, no. But at that age they parroted us. So it sounds like learned behaviour, learned phrases. Is she hearing this kind of thing from you? From her dad's?

@rattlemehearties

Not normal for my kids, no. But at that age they parroted us. So it sounds like learned behaviour, learned phrases. Is she hearing this kind of thing from you? From her dad's?

@rattlemehearties I will say things like "If you don't tidy up then I won't be putting the TV on so you can watch..." or "If you don't at least try one bite of your tea you can't have a biscuit"

ExH only has her for 1 night EOWend, but I left him when DD was a toddler due to violence and control so maybe hearing it from him I don't know?

A lot of what she's saying sounds parroted back from somewhere.

I'd try and have an objective look at how you speak to her. The phone one is clear, she threatens to take your phone so to punish her you took her screen time. Clear where she gets the idea to confiscate someone's phone when they do something she doesn't like isn't it?

I'd also look at how she's spoken to by other adults.

In terms of the general behaviour i.e. being a pain the ass. That's very normal 7 year old behaviour. It sounds like she's more mouthy and arguing than actually physically being problematic though?

I'm a teacher and have never experienced this myself or heard about it from parents.

I don't think it can be explained as a characteristic of dyslexia or dyspraxia either.

Do school have any mental health support in place? I'd be asking for a referral so that they can help her to address it.

At home, make sure it never works for her as a strategy and I would expect it to stop in time.

My Dd does this (sometimes).
NOT learned from anyone in this house.
I call it emotional blackmail and just keep telling her I don’t give into it and repeat what I’ve requested and walk away.
As long as you remain consistent it should just fade away. Sounds like you handle it really well IMO.

@NuffSaidSam

A lot of what she's saying sounds parroted back from somewhere.

I'd try and have an objective look at how you speak to her. The phone one is clear, she threatens to take your phone so to punish her you took her screen time. Clear where she gets the idea to confiscate someone's phone when they do something she doesn't like isn't it?

I'd also look at how she's spoken to by other adults.

In terms of the general behaviour i.e. being a pain the ass. That's very normal 7 year old behaviour. It sounds like she's more mouthy and arguing than actually physically being problematic though?

@NuffSaidSam Very mouthy, which I do want to shut down. She does have the occasional violent meltdown only at home, that's usually down to something related to her SN though rather than manipulation.

I've just seen your update. I'm afraid she is picking it up from you. You are negotiating with her every time you ask her to do something. So she's doing the same.

I’m also a teacher and have seen it on several occasions from various children.
@twominutesmore you’ve really never heard a 5 year old tell another 5 year old that “if you don’t give it to me you can’t come to my birthday party” they do it all the time!

I agree with PP who say she is playing you at your own game. When my DD started school she came home and started parroting lots of teacher stuff like - if you don't listen to me quietly you will have to sit on your own (time out chair sort of thing). So I said - that's not how we talk to each other at home. I follow the Phillipa
Perry book - the book you wish your parents had read. I would definitely recommend it.

But also - huge sympathies. It sounds really hard work.

@Smartiepants79

I’m also a teacher and have seen it on several occasions from various children. *@twominutesmore* you’ve really never heard a 5 year old tell another 5 year old that “if you don’t give it to me you can’t come to my birthday party” they do it all the time!

Of course. But not at the level op has described it.

@twominutesmore

I've just seen your update. I'm afraid she is picking it up from you. You are negotiating with her every time you ask her to do something. So she's doing the same.

@twominutesmore I don't really know what else to do though, she doesn't care about sweets or treats or money because ExH gives her those things, so apart from screentime and pudding I don't really have anything to take away from her.

I've never experienced that from my DC. Do you model manipulation? Do you say 'If you don't do x, then I'm taking away your iPad?' If so she is probably just copying you.

Could you frame your requests more positively maybe?

When you've tidied your room shall we watch that movie or do a jigsaw?

Make a conscious effort, at least for the time being, not to use 'threatening' negotiation, ignore all efforts to manipulate you, make sure dad and school are inside, ask school if they have an intervention to help children with specific issues like this.

Why do you need to take anything away from her? I've never taken anything away from my DC.

*onside

There is a little girl in DDs class (year 2) who was quite manipulative but on a different level to this. There were also other quite concerning behaviours and she has focused mental health support and counselling a few times a week. I’m friends with her mum which is how I know.

However her daughters manipulation was a lot more adult/extreme than what your daughter is saying.

I’d consistently be saying “no you won’t do X/Y/Z because I’m the adult and your the child” or “tell your teacher what you like DD” with an eye roll

@twominutesmore

Could you frame your requests more positively maybe?

When you've tidied your room shall we watch that movie or do a jigsaw?

Make a conscious effort, at least for the time being, not to use 'threatening' negotiation, ignore all efforts to manipulate you, make sure dad and school are inside, ask school if they have an intervention to help children with specific issues like this.

@twominutesmore Thank you thats a good idea, I'll try that, I do use some of that but will use it more.

ExH will never be onside sadly, but will chat to school, they haven't mentioned issues with her there but I'm just feeling a bit like she must be doing it at school as well.

@Rapita

There is a little girl in DDs class (year 2) who was quite manipulative but on a different level to this. There were also other quite concerning behaviours and she has focused mental health support and counselling a few times a week. I’m friends with her mum which is how I know.

However her daughters manipulation was a lot more adult/extreme than what your daughter is saying.

I’d consistently be saying “no you won’t do X/Y/Z because I’m the adult and your the child” or “tell your teacher what you like DD” with an eye roll

@Rapita I do just say "That's ok you can tell people what you like" and I do tell her "I'm in charge as the adult".

It does seem worse when she's tired, or upset as well, so something to look out for.

Imho, you get DC on board more if you're nice to them, not threatening all the time. You could say 'I know it's boring tidying your room and you probably don't know where to start, but I'm here to help you! Let's put some music on for 15 min and see how much we can get done in that time!'

But it's exactly what you are doing! I remember doing this a while back, I only realised when my DC started a running joke one lunchtime with the threatened consequences getting increasingly ridiculous....it was quite funny and I realised how I was throwing the threats around. It's not a fun way to parent for either of you.

@Updownup

But it's exactly what you are doing! I remember doing this a while back, I only realised when my DC started a running joke one lunchtime with the threatened consequences getting increasingly ridiculous....it was quite funny and I realised how I was throwing the threats around. It's not a fun way to parent for either of you.

@Updownup I think part of the problem is if I say "Lets tidy up together" I know it'll be me tidying up and DD standing around watching, she'd rather do anything than tidy up.

I had a one out to play one put away rule for a while but she just stopped playing completely and asking for the ipad.

But I do like some of your suggestions, I can work some of those in thank you.

It's normal for kids to experiment with power and control. It sounds like you are handling things brilliantly.

It's also normal for kids to be unsettled when they switch between parents, which might be a part of the picture too.

Stand firm and it will pass.

@Stompythedinosaur

It's normal for kids to experiment with power and control. It sounds like you are handling things brilliantly.

It's also normal for kids to be unsettled when they switch between parents, which might be a part of the picture too.

Stand firm and it will pass.

@Stompythedinosaur Definitely worse when she's been with ExH or she's tired or upset for whatever reason.

I never give in to the manipulation but there are things suggested here that I am going to implement to hopefully make it a happier house.

@DrivingMeMadWithManipulation - it can be hard for any child of that age but especially a neuro diverse child to know how to tidy and organise. You really have to teach them step by tiny step. So literally you'll need to completely direct her at first. I know it can be tiring, but keep going!

[quote UndertheCedartree]@DrivingMeMadWithManipulation - it can be hard for any child of that age but especially a neuro diverse child to know how to tidy and organise. You really have to teach them step by tiny step. So literally you'll need to completely direct her at first. I know it can be tiring, but keep going![/quote]
@UndertheCedartree I used to talk her through step by step so "Pick up all the rubbish and put that in the bin" then "pick up all the barbies" etc but it would take hours just to pick up like 5 toys and it was just as frustratingly slow for me as for her.