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AIBU?

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Original poster

Should I go to CSA??

63 replies

kickasssinglemum · 06/03/2022 10:06

Me and my ex-p split when our DS was a few weeks ago. Since DS was 4 months old ex-p started paying me £200 per month for maintenance. This increased to £350 on my request to cover half the childcare costs as we both work full time.

He has our DS overnight 2 nights a week (as he’s still a toddler). DS goes to childcare 3 days per week and I have him at home with me the other 2 days per week, while working a full-time job 5 days a week (I wfm these 2 days). My job is very stressful and demanding but I’m trying to keep the cost of childcare to a minimum.

We both have good jobs and earn well. Ex-p earns significantly more than me however. He is self employed so I don’t know how much exactly. However he owns 3 expensive properties (1 he lives in and 2 he rents out) as well as a mobile holiday home and drives a very nice car.

He has complained previously that he shouldn’t be paying me anything at all as I also have a ‘good job’ and that he only needs to “pay what he can”.

Childcare fees have now increased due to inflation so essentially there will be nothing left over from his current £350 once I pay half of his share of the childcare fees. I have asked him for more and he’s reluctant to increase the monthly payment anymore than £50 a month (so £400).

I pay for everything for DS and ex-p doesn’t pay for anything extra, except supplying what DS needs the 2 nights he stays with ex-p. We also share the driving for when DS stays with ex-p but ex-p doesn’t share the driving to nursery. I do all of that.

Ex-p has a new girlfriend and they frequently go on foreign holidays together and spend a lot of their weekends travelling around the country staying in 5* spa hotels. His girlfriend is much younger than him and wouldn’t be earning much at all to afford such a lifestyle, so I know he pays for everything for her.

I’m thinking I should go to CSA to get them to properly assess what ex-should be paying as I think it should be a lot more. Thoughts?

I don’t know ex-p’s NI number so is it a case that CSA will write to ex-p to ask him to provide details of what he earns?

OP posts:
Original poster
kickasssinglemum · 06/03/2022 15:16

It’s not that I want him to pay for childcare necessarily, just more maintenance in general as I don’t think the £350 is currently enough based on what he earns. I know he definitely earns more than £80k, but being able to prove that though CMS is another matter if he’s self employed and can ‘hide’ some of it. I think based on all of the advice I will avoid going though CMS as I don’t think it would be worth the hassle. I will just try and appeal to him reasonably to contribute more. If not monthly then to pay for things on an ad hoc basis. Thanks all

OP posts:
funinthesun19 · 06/03/2022 15:48

I’d check the calculator first. If they assess him and say he has to pay less then he will do that.
Also you don’t truly know his girlfriend’s financial situation even if you might have a rough idea what she earns. She might have money stashed away you know nothing about. She might be paying for more than you think.

GreMay1 · 06/03/2022 15:56

I would not rock the boat OP in your case. I would push gently for the extra £50 a month and leave because your ex has your DS 2 nights a week also.

Can you reduce your work days to 4 perhaps? Or use a child minder?

Original poster
kickasssinglemum · 06/03/2022 16:27

The girlfriend is 12 years his junior. She just finished uni last summer so highly doubt she is contributing much to their social life.
I would love to drop down to a 4 day week but I couldn’t afford to financially.

OP posts:
ChiselandBits · 06/03/2022 16:34

If he is barrister its going to be rather harder for him to hide his payments than if he was a cash in hand tradesman for instance. Any sniff of illegality and he'd be dis-barred. Ignore those saying you're "lucky" to get what you do. he should be paying the CMS rate as a MINIMUM. The childcare issue has to be done to death on other threads but for what it's worth, IMHO, if both parents are enabled to work by paid childcare then they should be sharing that cost (or whatever is owed after any tax credits are factored in.) on top of any CMS figure which is very loosely defined as "a contribution toward the essentials" - meaning of course than anything beyond the most basic bed and board can't be asked for.

LittleOwl153 · 06/03/2022 16:56

What's half of the full time nursery place? He can't argue with the request to pay that (although I expect he will!)

Is he self employed or does he have his own company... if he has a company his earnings are easier to find... but also easier to legitimately discount!

He should be paying 12% of his income so on £100k he owes £1000 a month. I might ask for £650/700.

If he is over £150k you can apply direct to the court for additional maintenance... I wonder if mentioning that would encourage him to pay more...

ChiselandBits · 06/03/2022 17:00

of course he can argue with it - legally, the CMS amount is ALL he can asked for unless something else was included with a separate consent order upon divorce, eg private school fees.

LittleOwl153 · 06/03/2022 17:04

I'm aware of that sadly. Clearly this bloke is a pass taker when it comes to paying his share.
As I doubt the CMS is going to come up with anything useful for the OP, I was looking for alternatives or ways of phrasing getting a voluntary increase from him.

RandomMess · 06/03/2022 17:08

He is a barrister he will submit annual accounts as he is self-employed.

He will not want to have a legal dispute because he is a barrister, I would look into with not paying CMS risks his licence/registration and no longer being able to work.

His earnings will fluctuate depending on when he is paid for his work so some years you could get more than others.

hupfpferd · 06/03/2022 18:24

Definitely stop referring to the money as "half of childcare" etc.

You run the risk that he stops paying when your child goes to school.

£400 is not a lot. My ex pays £450 and earns substantially less than £50k

GreMay1 · 06/03/2022 18:40

@hupfpferd

Definitely stop referring to the money as "half of childcare" etc.

You run the risk that he stops paying when your child goes to school.

£400 is not a lot. My ex pays £450 and earns substantially less than £50k

£400 is a lot though and OP gets 2 nights a week. I know there's the whole long debate of it doesn't cut it to raise a child. I absolutely understand and agree.

Realistically though £400/£450 for CM is a lot of money generally speaking on average.

Mangoberries · 06/03/2022 18:57

OP,
What would you like him to pay per month?
Instead of asking for frequent raises, perhaps ask him for what you think he should pay?

ChiselandBits · 06/03/2022 19:03

I don't think arguing about if £400 is a lot or not is helpful. For some it more than covers 50% of what they are outlying on a child, for others, it doesn't touch the sides. Its about what is relative to the parents' earning power. A barrister is NOT going to be on a small or average salary.

Mouldyfeet · 06/03/2022 19:05

She should not be ‘grateful’ for £350! The bloke is barrister probably earning at least £80k plus ones 2 other properties he rents out.
He will have to be declaring a fair whack of that and do yes, I would go through CMS. Don’t be bullied by him and don’t listen to the people saying you should be grateful FFS!

Fizzgigg · 06/03/2022 19:09

What is the pattern of your child staying with him? Childcare is your responsibility on your days but if he's with your dh on some days then childcare is his responsibility on those days. It may be that you can keep that money you get as child maintenance but he picks up more childcare cost. You need to decouple what he gives you as money towards childcare and instead it's money for the child's maintenance in general.

CheesyMother · 06/03/2022 19:22

As a first step, why don’t you put the figures into the child maintenance calculator using a reasonable estimate of what he earns (£100k? He could be earning significantly more than that depending on how many years call he is and what area of law his practice is in…) You can download a pdf of the calculation and use that as a starting point for a discussion about it all.

www.gov.uk/calculate-child-maintenance

I definitely agree that you shouldn’t be basing it on childcare costs as, unless your child will be going to private school, those will only decrease in the future.

GreMay1 · 06/03/2022 19:24

@ChiselandBits

I don't think arguing about if £400 is a lot or not is helpful. For some it more than covers 50% of what they are outlying on a child, for others, it doesn't touch the sides. Its about what is relative to the parents' earning power. A barrister is NOT going to be on a small or average salary.
Nobody is saying though. If OP goes through CMS.... her ex is very likely to down tools and not do the 2 additional nights. That also won't be "helpful".
Original poster
kickasssinglemum · 06/03/2022 19:46

When we split up our DS was only a few weeks old (ex-p was cheating on me with his now GF). I was left in a brand new house paying the mortgage and providing for DS all on my own on a maternity crap wage. After a few months he agreed to pay me £200 maintenance. Which at the time he didn’t think he should be paying me anything!

Once I went back to work and had to factor in childcare, it was on that basis that he paid more. Childcare is usually £450/500 a month for 3 days. The other 2 days DS is home with me while I work because I can’t afford 5 days childcare. My family try and help me out those 2 days as it’s very stressful trying to juggle work and a toddler!

Ex-p has DS 1 night during the week. He picks him up after nursery and drops him to nursery the next morning as he also works full time. Then he has DS 1 night at the weekends also, so his overnights don’t cover childcare days. The 2 overnights is more recent, before that it was just 1 night a week. When nursery closes in the summer and over xmas it’s me that has to use up annual leave from work to cover those days, not him.

My guess is that he’s on £80k at an absolute minimum!! The 3 properties that he owns (all mortgaged) are worth a lot!! Therefore I feel he should be paying at least the CMS minimum to reflect that. The problem is he won’t tell me what he earns and I have no way of finding out, other than to ask CMS to do an assessment of his earnings.

It just annoys me that he’s a high earner and can get away with paying very little in the grand scheme of things, while I’m living paycheck to paycheck to provide for DS. He doesn’t prioritise DS financially even when he has the means to do so!

Ideally I would like £500 a month from ex-p but that’s not something he’s going to agree to out of the goodness of his heart!

My fear also is that if I go to CMS that he would try and seek 50/50 contact with DS and I don’t want that happening. So if that’s a risk then I’m probably best just trying to get him to agree to pay more as a private arrangement and ‘state my case’ to him for an increase so to speak…

OP posts:
Sometimeswinning · 06/03/2022 19:57

Seriously £350-400 - count yourself lucky and be grateful for that rather than cutting off your nose to spite your face - I get £30 a month for my DD and plenty of single parents on here get absolutely nothing - try living off that!

What is wrong with you??

RandomMess · 06/03/2022 20:01

But if he gets 50:50 then he pays 50% of nursery fees as both week days and weekends are shared.

Thanks
Original poster
kickasssinglemum · 06/03/2022 20:07

It would break my heart having a 50/50 split as it wouldn’t be ex-p looking after DS. He would pass DS off onto his mum and his sister which already happens all too frequently! He doesn’t actually want DS 50/50 or anything close, but he would do it to pay less and get his family to look after DS instead 😢

OP posts:
GreMay1 · 06/03/2022 20:15

I cannot image your ex would get 50/50 especially if your DC are nursery age OP and you have never had that arrangement in place. I think from what you have said and another poster mentioned it IS likely with his job that he wouldn't be able to try and hide his earnings. You don't need to know what his salary is CMS do all that it's standard for everyone.

Mouldyfeet · 06/03/2022 20:16

I doubt he’d get 50/50 or want it, it would impact on him too much

DrivingMeMadWithManipulation · 06/03/2022 20:20

Rent and other assets don't count towards the calculation.

Been there.

My ExH on paper earns nothing, but has two properties he rents out and he's definitely working but as he's down as a volunteer, his CMS award is £0.

He was paying me £400ish when we split but then went to the CMS himself.

Hrpuffnstuff1 · 06/03/2022 20:53

Self employed are allowed expense deductions, so there's a significant difference between turnover and earnings. I think people confuse PAYE and business/self employment.