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To consider ‘going to the papers’

177 replies

Hellorhighwater · 04/03/2022 19:07

Three years ago, after my husband died, a major financial institution really cocked up my life. They have (finally) admitted responsibility, but are fighting me over compensation. The ombudsman is involved, but has now said they don’t cover all ‘consequential losses’, and I may have to sue for some of them. I can’t face it. It’s been utterly awful. Obviously it’s complex, but I’m missing £60k in equity I should have realised and about £800 a month ongoing. The damages add up to about £70k, so it’s not inconsequential amounts they’ve cost me. I’m trying keep my shopping budget under £20 a week this month for me, DD and two dogs. I’m penniless and they make millions in profits. It feels like they have all the power here, and it feels deeply unfair.

I’ve always thought that taking to the media is a low blow, but I’m so exhausted by the whole process I don’t know what else to do. I can’t carry on like this. ) I thought the ombudsman would be the end of it (they’ve been dealing with it since August last year and everything takes forever) and I thought perhaps a bit of bad publicity might push them into being a bit more amenable. Not that I actually have any idea how to do it. Email ‘The Sun’? (I don’t even read the news!). What do people think?

OP posts:
TatianaBis · 05/03/2022 23:02

What % of the 10% does 37k represent and how much of that 37k would go on mortgage payments on a reasonable rate of interest?

Hellorhighwater · 05/03/2022 23:06

@TatianaBis did you get set up with a financial advisor, or do you come from a background or profession where investing is a thing? I don’t even know anyone who invests at all, beyond paying into their company pension scheme, and maybe a junior isa. It’s simply not talked about in circles I move in. I have lovely friends from all walks of life, both with less and more money than me (mostly more!) but no one invests. Round here if you have spare money you buy a bar and hot tub and a shiny new car, and take the kids to Disneyland. I would love to talk to people in real life about this, but I don’t know anyone casually at all. I feel like a sounding board would be a great help, but I don’t know where to find my people.

OP posts:
noodiedoodie · 05/03/2022 23:11

A major high street bank sent the completion monies on my new home to the wrong bank account - twice! It was hugely stressful and they were incredibly slow to sort things out until I contacted the money issues person at the Daily Mail and sent details of my email to the bank's Director of PR and Communications. Miraculously, the money was refunded and redirected the following day and I received compensation. Good Luck

Hellorhighwater · 05/03/2022 23:19

@TatianaBis

What % of the 10% does 37k represent and how much of that 37k would go on mortgage payments on a reasonable rate of interest?
The 37k was profit after all the mortgage interest had been paid. Final profit for the year submitted for income tax. 10% for the property I was referring to at that point, but around 8% over the whole portfolio. I can’t remember what mortgage deals I had going on at the time, exactly. Better than I’m paying now, worse than I’ll be paying if I can ever get them sorted out.
OP posts:
samqueens · 05/03/2022 23:20

That makes sense, and I can see you’re between a rock and a hard place. I wasn’t suggesting sell everything and invest. Rather, given all the income is currently minus mortgage payments you can’t afford (and which might at any time in the next ten years become just as difficult/expensive all over again for reasons outside your control) was wondering whether selling one and using it to pay off debt on the other might be worth considering? Sorry if didn’t explain it well.
This could give more security of income from the other (or even other two), with at least one owned outright (the one you think most likely to increase in capital terms) and the other with perhaps a smaller mortgage. Could this not provide a good basis for income at least? If you needed to work p/t to supplement I get that’s annoying compared to your 17/18 situation - but in terms of your well-being and long term security it might be preferable…
obviously you know the ins and outs best. And I’m sure you’ve run numbers on all kinds of scenarios. I’ve spent a decade as a single parent juggling different challenges, (but not unrelated in financial terms), and all I can say is that just the constant worry and juggle takes a massive toll. Having a bedrock income without stress about banks/borrowing (even if only half 17/18 numbers), with probable capital increase of value over long term to look forward to, plus a bit of income from additional work (not to mention having that going on for you when your DD gets into teenagedom and only wants to spend time with her friends!) could be good diversification?!
I hope whatever happens you do get some help with and resolution to what has gone before. It’s hard to have to make all the big decisions on your own - being a single parent is very tough 💐

Silvershroud · 05/03/2022 23:25

I had an identity theft 20 years ago, an international bank took out a CCJ against me and two CC judgments and impacted my credit rating. I only found out about all this when my employer started taking payments from my salary to pay compensation. As the bank insisted they were following the law, and the police said the "crime" was not against me but against the bank, I wrote to Tony Heatherington at the Daily Mail and he sorted it all out. I had a write up, so they got something out of it, but it was an anonymous paragraph. Well worth it!

Usernamerequired · 05/03/2022 23:28

Yes media, never the sun though!
Involve local politician too.
Good luck, i hope you get what you are owed

samqueens · 05/03/2022 23:32

Fully agree about plans getting sideswiped - that’s why I’d vote to own less but actually own it! It’s the banks and the world that sideswipe you, so it’s a lot easier to weather storms when they are not a big part of the equation.

TatianaBis · 05/03/2022 23:34

The 37k was profit after all the mortgage interest had been paid

Yes for that year I understood that, but going forward on the type of deal you want to get onto - how much would be going out. Do you foresee being able to replicate that?

TatianaBis · 05/03/2022 23:45

I totally understand @samqueens point which is sort of where I was going that a lower but more stable income is much less stressful than a higher one. I understand that difference between 3 or even 5% and 10% is too big, but what’s the personal cost of chasing the highest return?

I wouldn’t want to rely solely on property income unless the portfolio was large. If you’ve never had non-paying tenants you’ve been very lucky.

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 06/03/2022 06:25

@Ericabro

Contact FSCS/ action fraud and the SFO
The FSCS (Financial Services Compensation Schene) deals with insolvent institutions - ie the ‘can’t pay’ rather than tbe ‘won’t pay’.

The Serious Fraud Office is here irrelevant

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 06/03/2022 06:53

@Hellorhighwater

I appreciate the suggestions. Some details (they are really boring!)

Husband died intestate. No life insurance, but two mortgaged buy to let properties. I have one btl in my own name, mortgaged with Financial Institution. I inherited his, but it’s a sod to get a mortgage in my name, because of inheriting them, I don’t understand why. Got one single offer, on a horrible interest rate. Offers in writing accepted with enough to discharge DH’s mortgage and a bit more to buy me and DD a house outright along with the proceeds from our house in the SE. So I borrowed from my mum to make up the difference until the btl mortgages come through.

Was almost going through, when a last minute credit check revealed Financial institution have marked my credit rating with several unpaid mortgage markers. I had paid the mortgage and am furious. I pay it in advance, quarterly and I they didn’t advise me of the right reference number when I started doing it online. They returned the money to a savings account and didn’t even write to me until they’d put two months markers on. Mortgages declined.

Took months and months to get anyone to GAF. Eventually, they did (emailed the chief exec) and I got it cleared. Took almost a year. New Mortgage offers but worse rates, and only enough to cover DH’s mortgage. Not the extra I’d planned to pay off my mum with. Then even that was withdrawn and I had to pay in money to get them remortgaged at all. No real choice.

Got a few hundred quid costs for rearranging holidays and stuff, and a few thousand legal costs and difference between the mortgage I was paying and the one I could now get. It was still crappy rate, but I was advised to take what I could get (one property was almost repossessed in this time!) and remortgage after six months.

At this point I was happy enough. Not getting the equity hurt, and I persuaded Financial Institution to give me a mortgage to make up the difference, and rolled in the motorhome finance so as to afford it. (All my money is from btl so residential mortgages are hard for me to get, which is why I was trying not have one). And it was all right over lockdown which was awful. I was just so glad to be able to keep the properties.

I wait six months (you have to) and try to remortgage. I have to get quotes for works to release equity, not just match the mortgage, which is now during 2nd lockdown and is really hard to organise. Finally I have what I need (my agent was crap here, it all took months) and they put more markers on my credit rating, for various different and invalid reasons. Again it takes months for them to admit liability and remove them. They gave all sorts of excuses. I completely flip my lid at them, several times. I’m going broke paying horrible interest rates, and a residential mortgage I didn’t budget for. By August 21 I am almost bankrupt and sell my motorhome to keep paying the bloody mortgages, because one of the houses isn’t now let. I have been offered a 5 year let by a company, but I can’t take it became the mortgage lender wouldn’t re-finance on that basis. The mortgage offers have long since expired.

I now can’t get another mortgage offer. the mortgage company decides they are Houses of Multiple Occupancy (they are usually, but not at the moment because of covid) and won’t offer on them. Products are massively reduced because of covid, and HMO mortgages aren’t widely available. Lender doesn’t do one to offer me. HMO licences are £900 each property, and I don’t have that, and an HMO mortgage will need them, even if it isn’t an HMO let.

Financial Institution offers 2k compensation and about 6K difference between the mortgage I thought I could get, and the one I thought I could have had before they stomped all over my credit rating for the second time. But they won’t pay the 6k, only the 2k. I think 2k is too low, given the shit I’ve been through and that they know I need money and are chancing it. The 6K is money I have already spent on interest costs unfairly, and I think they should pay up. They also tried to impose a deadline for remortgaging or they wouldn’t pay anything, which I can’t meet, because one property isn’t let, and anyway I can’t pay for the licenses now. I hand the whole lot over the to the ombudsman.

I’m now broke. My dog almost died over Christmas, which cost a fortune in vet fees. She is insured, but they haven’t paid out yet either, and she was so sick, I couldn’t just leave her to suffer. (She’s fine now as long as she eats really expensive food). I thought for sure the Obudsman would sort out in February, but I’m still waiting. They keep asking for more evidence and information (I know they need evidence, but they keep saying they have everything and then finding something else). I have just enough saved for the solicitors costs to remortgage, but that’s only half a months mortgage payment. The two properties that are let are enough for us pay basic bills, and I’m frugal, but not enough to pay the mortgages as well let as they are. If the ombudsman doesn’t come through and the institution actually pay up by the end of the March, I’ll get real markers on my credit rating and then I won’t be able remortgage at all.

The ombudsman can only only consider the second lot of credit markers, not the first, because it was more than six months ago and I didn’t flip out at the time (mistake. I was polite and civil and didn’t want to seem grabby. I didn’t know they’d do it again. I didn’t know about the HMO crap). They can’t take into account that it’s been going on for so long. They can’t award for the motorhome (that I had to sell in a hurry to a broker, because I needed to make the mortgage payment at the end of month). I don’t think they can award for the interest, as we can’t compare like to like and the lender won’t give me historical rates anyway. I bet they can’t award for the rental income loss, or the extra interest I’ve been paying on my residential mortgage or even the compensatory interest on the equity I couldn’t get, because it all relates to the first set of markers. I’ve only recently found this out.

It’s all so stupid. It was such a small mistake, and they would NOT listen that it was such a big issue for me and correct it. And I’m going to lose my livelihood over it. Pre covid I made about £30k over the three properties. The last two years I’ve made £13k. I’ve no reserves.

I’m going to have to sell one and go back to work. They were DHs pension provision, I’ve got no other death benefits for him. They are a perfectly viable comfortable income usually. We should have been fine, and I was thinking of re-training or starting a little business once my dd is settled in high school. (I’ve no real childcare here) I’ve never had problems letting them before (especially the one that’s empty now. It’s never been void, not in twenty years. It’s just covid a blip but I can’t weather it because of this. If I could hold on until July, it would let, I’m certain. But I can’t. I’m going to have to sell it, pay capital gains tax and buy another one and pay second home stamp duty.

I didn’t choose to be a landlord. It was DH’s thing. But it would be working out OK if Financial Institution hadn’t made mistakes, and I don’t think I would be such dire straights if they hadn’t. There are better ways to get out than this. I’m not comfortable morally with second home ownership, but I’m so beaten down by it all, I haven’t the wherewithal to do something else at moment, and I have to consider my obligation to DD via his estate as well, not just what I might like to do. I feel a bit broken over it. I’m usually pretty smart and savvy, but jeez, how much can any one person deal with. My DD is a pretty high needs kiddo, and is currently undergoing an ADHD assessment, doesn’t sleep through and is having support for anxiety at school. my dishwasher and my oven broke this week. Ironically, I have spares of both in the garage, but I haven’t the headspace to figure out how to plumb them in (and I can’t lift them on my own). And the boiler is making a horrible noise and needs the reset button pressing to heat up every couple of hours. I’m terrified it’s going to break and I can’t bear the thought of living with no heating or hot water. I just can’t. It’s the last straw. I know it’s a first world problem, and many people are facing worse with the cost of living crisis and lots of widows would consider themselves lucky to have a passive income at all. I know that. But this is all because of someone else’s mistakes and I just want them to FIX IT! With money.

I may be a little overwrought. I’m not usually despondent. I’ll be back tomorrow with a new new attitude. Unless the boiler fails. Then I will stay in bed and cry. A lot.

The 6 month time limit is applicable to Ombudsman only, not court proceedings. However, from what you outline, tbe losses you describe would be too remote for a court to include in any award for damages .

I am sorry for tbe awful position you’re in

MintyFreshBreath · 06/03/2022 07:02

I’m the shy type so I wouldn’t, however much pain someone had caused me. That’s just because I wouldn’t want my business splashed around everywhere. However, it’s your choice and if you want to then go for it. Martin Lewis may also be interested in it.

Headinthecloudsfeetinthemud · 06/03/2022 10:35

Asked my partner for his thoughts (he’s in finance)

  • the financial institution has done all it’s going to do. If it lets it get to the ombudsman then it will just wait for the ruling.
  • The ombudsman is usually pretty good at making sure compensation is appropriate. If it hasn’t yet completed the process let it complete. Don’t risk that process by going off in a different direction
  • The ombudsman won’t care about the media or be influenced by it. They are a government appointed body - they don’t have reputational concerns like a commercial organisation.
  • The financial institution may react to bad press but unlikely - they will ‘no comment’ and let the ombudsman sort it
  • whatever the situation is, washing it in The Sun will cause more stress than anything else. Can’t see them paying much if anything for the story so you get more downsides and no real upsides.
  • this probably won’t be a straight forward situation. It will be opinions on either side. If it was clear cut then the financial institution would have just paid.

So those are his thoughts. Are you waiting for ombudsman ruling before going to press/Martin Lewis/both?
I’m so sorry for this and for the loss of your husband - sending love x

Dragonella · 06/03/2022 11:01

Try something like Watchdog or Ripoff Britain.. They seem to get results

TatianaBis · 06/03/2022 11:06

@Headinthecloudsfeetinthemud

It’s not true that firms would necessarily wait for the FOS ruling. Some firms want to avoid that being published if they can. A case handler for the FOS undertakes an initial investigation, the firm makes an offer at that stage. My experience and that of another poster above is that if the initial offer is not accepted it may be increased to avoid the formal FOS outcome being published.

The FOS won’t care about media interest, but it’s the impact on the firm itself we were advised to be wary of. They may pay up or they may hunker down.

The Sun is not on the table. The consumer champions on broadsheets are a different kettle of fish.

user1481055867 · 06/03/2022 13:31

@BluebellsGreenbells

Thy do have some sway - but not always.

Perhaps try and find out who the head of the company is and join Twitter - this always seems to get their attention.

@Hellorhighwater

I think Social media like Twitter/FB may help to get a reaction of someone who would contact you immediately as feeds are constantly watched, dont know about UK, but it definitely works in US. I only did it with UPS , merely regarding my childs passport that nobody could answer where it went and we had a flight to catch costing us money in daily changes. Someone told me to go on social media of that company, which i did and a real person DM me almost instantly getting to the bottom of it and resolving the matter in no time. I know yours is much more complex but nobody likes bad publicty, especially on social media as it spreads so fast. You are getting good advice here, i would try everything from money experts to BBC to agony aunts, why should you suffer. So sorry, hoping this will get resolved soonest.

Hellorhighwater · 06/03/2022 17:32

@samqueens no, I get it. I completely see what you’re saying, and it’s useful to have scenarios. I began thinking about it a few weeks ago. On the one hand, selling one and paying some stuff off would be incredibly freeing, but I’m not very confident about investing and I cant see me making another investment for the medium term. Doing that would mean an income of about 23k, the tax burden would be higher, and I’d still have the residential mortgage. I’ll do it I have to, but I think I’d like to stick with what I know while I’m supporting DD.

I do worry about interest rates a bit. But if I could fix for 5 years at sub 4%, I’ll be fine, even in lousy years. I’m paying 5.8% atm, and it’s not sustainable. I have never, in 20 years, had a year like this and I could have weathered even this if I’d re-financed as planned.

I don’t mind being a single parent, on the whole. I’m very independent, but I do miss having someone to talk to about this sort of thing. I just don’t know people who it wouldn’t be tactless to discuss this with, and it’s very dissonant trying to manage a minuscule household budget with a healthy capital budget. I find it really hard to both at the same time!

OP posts:
Hellorhighwater · 06/03/2022 17:47

@TatianaBis

The 37k was profit after all the mortgage interest had been paid

Yes for that year I understood that, but going forward on the type of deal you want to get onto - how much would be going out. Do you foresee being able to replicate that?

Yes, I’d expect to replicate that very easily. It wasn’t a great year, or anything, and the rates I had at the time were comparable.

Long term, I definitely don’t want to rely on property. I’d certainly never have chosen it. But I’ve no experience of anything else, and no employable skills. I have a had a few blips and one or two non payers in 20 years, but its very rare, and because you let to group, you get one out of a group not paying, not a whole property. Also, the students pay termly in advance. In theory, their housemates are responsible for making up the shortfall, and their parents sign a guarantee, too. (I would never actually make them do that, the rare non payers I have had I’ve just chalked it up to part of the package). Fixing the rates for five years is security enough for me, I think..

OP posts:
Hellorhighwater · 06/03/2022 17:51

@Headinthecloudsfeetinthemud

Asked my partner for his thoughts (he’s in finance)
  • the financial institution has done all it’s going to do. If it lets it get to the ombudsman then it will just wait for the ruling.
  • The ombudsman is usually pretty good at making sure compensation is appropriate. If it hasn’t yet completed the process let it complete. Don’t risk that process by going off in a different direction
  • The ombudsman won’t care about the media or be influenced by it. They are a government appointed body - they don’t have reputational concerns like a commercial organisation.
  • The financial institution may react to bad press but unlikely - they will ‘no comment’ and let the ombudsman sort it
  • whatever the situation is, washing it in The Sun will cause more stress than anything else. Can’t see them paying much if anything for the story so you get more downsides and no real upsides.
  • this probably won’t be a straight forward situation. It will be opinions on either side. If it was clear cut then the financial institution would have just paid.

So those are his thoughts. Are you waiting for ombudsman ruling before going to press/Martin Lewis/both?
I’m so sorry for this and for the loss of your husband - sending love x

Thank you, the problem seems to be that the Ombudsman cannot look at the whole thing, only since December 2020. Which is the lesser part of the problem, and also they can’t take into account the cumulative problems. So even they admit that in this instance, their hands are tied.
OP posts:
Hellorhighwater · 06/03/2022 17:52

Thanking everyone for their input again, its really lovely to be able to discuss it and see different perspectives. I obviously hang in out with tweens too much (their investing advice sucks!)

OP posts:
nettie434 · 06/03/2022 21:28

Now we know a more about the full picture, Hellorhighwater, I understand why it has been so complicated.

I hope I'm not sounding as if I'm repeating myself but I think that finance journalists are much more likely to understand the full picture. If you do see a solicitor, I think you need someone who specialises in buy to let.

I've used Twitter to help resolve problems but I don't think it's the right avenue. It's great to chase up lost deliveries etc but the staff involved have very little autonomy. You tweet. They say they are sorry and ask you to send a private message. You contact them again viia this route They ask you to co

nettie434 · 06/03/2022 21:33

Sorry pressed too soon. You reply to the message and are caught up in the system where it depends on the social media staff contacting the right person. However, from the perspective of a member of the general public, they have responded to you.

I am so sorry that you have been caught up in BTL at such a bad time. Hope you can find someone with the right expertise to get you an answer that is fair for you.

me109f · 07/03/2022 01:47

This sounds like quite an issue, and commenting on it without all the details is very difficult. If you go to litigation it will require a detailed case to be set up and, of course, could be very expensive.
You have already written to the company and they have partly 'fobbed you off'. One technique I have used is to write again, attaching copies of the paperwork you have already received from the company, and write to the Financial Director of the company concerned, with a copy to the Managing Director. Explain your problem and why you are disatisfied with the way it is being dealt with by their Complaints Department. (Include the names of the staff involved.)
This is not how they expect these problems to be dealt with and senior executives will usually not want to handle this sort of thing at all, instead they will hand it to some 'assistant to the Board', probably a management trainee, and see what they say.
If you get fobbed off again keep writing back to the Finance Director (cc to the MD, of course) and explain your issues again. You will then start becoming a nuisance to these executives and also create a paper trail to some important officers of the company. Always address it to the same Board director(s) who will start to get pissed off with you but realize that if it ends up in litigation their names and reputations will be on the line.
Stick to your guns, be honest, be sure of your facts and you may well find that to get rid of you they will treat you fairly.
However, if they utterly refuse to see you all right, you will have a pile of correspondence to hand to a solicitor, and if you take it to the press
the evidence to back your case. Avoid getting too involved in telephone calls, and make them put their case in writing if they try and do a deal over the phone. (Note: The Board Members of a company are always listed in ther company documents, as is the registered (Head Office) address. Try Google or your local library.)

I could go on forever, but the reputation of their business is very important to Financial Institutions (I have worked for them and they can bullshit with the best of them and be very greedy, but if pressed they will generally treat customers decently. £60k is worth fighting for, cheer up and think of Ukraine!

stillherenow · 07/03/2022 03:53

Agree with @LittleGwyneth upthread, I also work in this field. If a journo finds a story here they will publish it hopefully, if they find holes in your account they won't , they're not out to shame ordinary members of the public. I would avoid the sun and the mail but def try money sections esp the Guardian and R4. Avoid local press like the plague.

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