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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Shop saying I'll be self employed

61 replies

Amiselfemployeed · 01/03/2022 17:19

Posting here for traffic, hoping someone can help.

I've been offered a job in a shoe shop in my town. Independent shop, not a chain. It's super convenient for me, the only thing is the owner said I would be self employed.
I'm a bit confused because this doesn't sound right to me, my hours and pay are set - not chosen by me. So it seems like I'm an employee just without the benefits such as holiday & pension?

Can anyone help weigh in on this? I'm a bit confused

OP posts:
donquixotedelamancha · 04/03/2022 08:01

If you read my post correctly you will find it is correct and legal. Certainly not for long term staff, but I've employed people this way.

It's clearly not legal in OP's case because she is working fixed hours for one employer, nothing about the role meets the criteria for self employment.

There have been a number of companies fined for using umbrella companies in the way you describe. Sadly their employees also had to pay back taxes.

If you've employed people in this way then you've acted illegally.

P.S. lovely to see a thread with OP getting such good advice.

WhoreOfBabyliss · 04/03/2022 08:10

This is exactly why IR35 was brought in and it has hit the profession I was in.

Report to HMRC.

Dontforgetyourbrolly · 04/03/2022 08:14

Don't do it , it's shit
They are actually doing nothing wrong but everything is on you , tax returns, NI , pension etc

I was desperate when I got made redundant in 2020 and took a similar job ( travel industry)
I had no choice but I wish I hadn't done it . No end of hassle and bother with the hmrc , the stress of it brought me to tears .
I'm now in a " proper " job and I feel 100% better

Clymene · 04/03/2022 08:18

@Dontforgetyourbrolly

Don't do it , it's shit They are actually doing nothing wrong but everything is on you , tax returns, NI , pension etc I was desperate when I got made redundant in 2020 and took a similar job ( travel industry) I had no choice but I wish I hadn't done it . No end of hassle and bother with the hmrc , the stress of it brought me to tears . I'm now in a " proper " job and I feel 100% better
They are doing something wrong - they're evading paying PAYE
nirvanaviolet · 04/03/2022 08:53

OP, I AM self employed and because I have to cover my own sick pay, holiday pay, etc, I get to choose my rate of pay and hours. That rate of pay that I set is at least four times national minimum wage to cover those costs and lack of benefits.
Your contract will never come outside of IR35 - look up Ir35. It's a tool used to determine whether you are ACTUALLY self employed.
Do not touch this company with a bargepole!

billy1966 · 04/03/2022 08:54

@Viviennemary

They are breaking the law. Don't touch it with a bargepole. Chancers
This.

Completely illegal.

BloodyN0rah · 04/03/2022 09:17

Please report them OP, this is unfair on any other business who are doing things by the book. The other people who work there are probably just cash in hand. HMRC have free payroll software for small companies and it’s very straightforward - they’re just trying to get out of holiday pay and other employment rights.
Cheeky fuckers!

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 04/03/2022 09:20

Outrageous behaviour - and definitely illegal.

Take something worth over a fiver from their shelf, make to put it in your pocket or bag and toss them a pound coin for it. When they protest, tell them that you've tried paying the actual price of goods in shops before, in order to acquire them legally, but you've found it's 'less hassle' to just do whatever suits you instead....

SamphiretheStickerist · 04/03/2022 09:22

@namechange if you are still employing people like that be prepared for some legal action. Look up IR35 and make your business practices legal.

DollyDingleberry · 04/03/2022 09:28

This is completely illegal. The fact their excuse was 'too much work' suggests they're potentially naive rather than willfully law breaking? If they're a small local company it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they dont know about IR35, as shocking as that is.

Local to me recently there was a similar thing - small independent underwear shop was 'employing' 4 older ladies (semi-retired). The ladies treated it as cash in hand pin money. One of the ladies left so they needed to hire someone and put the ad in the paper stating that the role was for a self employed bra fitter.

Someone saw the ad, went to the interview with the sole purpose of gathering evidence and then turned the business in to HMRC. The business is still there so I don't think anything really bad happened but they did get audited. I'm not saying the business did nothing wrong - they clearly did but it was through them not realising you can't use self employment as an excuse for casual cash in hand work anymore.

I personally would approach the business and ask them if they're aware what they're advertising doesnt meet the requirements to be considered a self employed role, and then from their reaction judge what your next step is. They might really appreciate the heads up and change you all to zero hours contracts instead.. or they might ignore you in which case, report away!

Graphista · 04/03/2022 19:44

Hmrc would be VERY interested indeed this is the job a relative of mine had and usually when a company is committing "minor" infractions like this quite brazenly and openly there's more going on in the background!

I would click "tax evasion" op

Or "fraud or scam"

HMRC likes these type of reports as illegal employee contracts tend to lead to tax evasion schemes crossing other tax classes as the employer has to disguise the payments

Exactly they tangle themselves in knots trying to conceal it

@ANameChangeAgain it's not just that, there are clearly defined rules on what constitutes an employee as opposed to self employed/contractor as linked by a few pps upthread

They can't just "decide" to pay op as a self employed person through choice she has to actually be self employed which retail workers generally aren't

If they expect her to work x hours for y pay in the way they wish and at the premises they wish etc she isn't self employed

@Ohmnomnom there are specific rules governing whether a worker is an employee or self employed

Gig economy at the moment just fall on the right side of the law on this because the way they use their workers is more flexible and (supposedly) because the workers can refuse shifts etc - they superficially have agency on how, when and where they work

Morally very questionable though!

Certainly not for long term staff, but I've employed people this way.

Doesn't matter how long you've been employing staff/plan to employ them for - you've said it yourself "I've EMPLOYED people this way" you employed them you didn't negotiate a contract with them as a self employed entity - you've been acting illegally

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