Ukrainians should just be given a three year stay in UK, no visa needed.

[Kendodd]

And they should be allowed to work, but not claim asylum.
And before people start jumping up and down 'they're not coming here, we're full up' minimal state support should be given to appease you lot. A network should be set up tso people with space, spare rooms etc can offer accommodation. Some of the people coming will be teachers, they can be supported in setting up informal or online schools for the children.
This is temporary, we are better than this. I know the Tories don't want it but they don't have to get over involved, individual people will step up and take people in. I know it's not perfect, but it's better than nothing.

Yabu - No
Yanbu Let them come

The neighbouring states are far more culturally similar

FFS. This is just xenophobia.

Just say 'I am a narrominded bigot who is scared of people not born in my country' and be proud of who you are.

I second using Royal Palaces (the Queen can keep Windsor), second homes, Oligarch and Gulf States empty mansions and politicians courtesy homes (Chevening) to allay the housing crisis ....
with Ukranians on 1 year visas having first dibs.

[quote GirlInACountrySong]@bumblenbean this is mumsnet. People don't really THINK of how these people will feel
They are expected to arrive here, put in someone's spare room and just find a job

No thought for their feelings and emotions [/quote]
And not just that but how will they support themselves whilst looking for work ,not everyone will be highly educated and be able to walk into a teaching job etc ,I'm guessing they wouldn't have access to public funds ,whose going to feed them and clothe them in the meantime ,would it be the people offering the spare room ,in reality whose going to be that generous to a near stranger in the long term
What's happening ,is absolutely awful ,but it's not a simple problem to solve .

Sensible post lonelyapple. I agree.

The fact of the matter is that once you agree to take in people from overseas for whatever length of time/reasons, it is statistically proven that a chunk of those will never go back. In the UK in particular, there is very little deterrent to discouraging people from overstaying.

The Ukrainians are fat more likely to want to move to Germany, Poland and Scandinavia if they were making long term plans. I am sure that many would prefer their country to regain stability so that they can move back there. However, if it ends up behind the iron curtain again then some (not all) will never go back.

Post 1980 or so, the whole process of displacing hoards of people as a response to war and economic hardship has disadvantaged more people than it has benefitted if absolutely everything/everyone's interests are factored in.

I agree OP

And as for people saying we are 'full up', we have the means and ability to build more housing, more schools, fund and train the NHS fully, have more GP services, have better public transport, have more dentists and other public services.

We simply dont have the political will, or in face the public support for those things.

We more than have the money for those things, look at the billions paid out to private companies and organisations during covid, all going into private hands of course for not very evidenced outcomes.

@ChocolateDeficitDisorder

Most of the U.K. population doesn’t own a spare bedroom.

I saw a stat the other day that 1/3 of UK homes have 2 or more spare bedrooms. I can't find the stat but it sounds about right.

We don't have an accommodation problem, we have an attitude problem.

You may well be happy to give your spare rooms ,up but for many people it's just not feasible for many people ,or maybe they just don't want to share their home with a complete stranger,it's too simplistic to say we have an attitude problem

Wrt putting people in spare rooms, I have loads of spare rooms but I would never feel comfortable letting random people into our family space. It could work out beautifully or it could lead to disastrous consequences but the point is that there is absolutely no way of knowing. I never even did it for the large wad of cash guaranteed to London landlords where full background checks on tenants would be far easier to perform.

@labyrinthlaziness I hope you've had breakfast, so much hatred in the morning somethings not quite right there!

People coming here will be terrified, shocked at losing their homes, livelihood and friends and family. And many unlikely to speak any English. We should be compassionate and help as much as we can, but I suspect some of the goodwill will be lost. Whether we like it are not there will be a lot of people who don't actually want them here. Which is sad, but we've seen it with other refugees.

We need to work hard and soon to start creating an infrastructure to support them to ensure that they feel as welcome as possible. I don't actually know how we achieve that though.

@Kendodd

To address the “let then work” why treat them differently from all other refugees....ie the nonwhite ones from Africa and Afghanistan? That smacks of racial preference for white refugees and racism against nonwhite refugees.

I've been arguing for ages refugees should be allowed to work. It makes absolutely no sense to me that they can't.
I think they Ukrainian crisis isn't the same as Afghanistan or Syria, my feeling is this will be temporary, so no need to claim asylum and clogging up an already overloaded system. Ukrainians actually have less need than the other two groups, imo, in that even if they stayed and Putin won, life would be nothing compared to the horrors of living under the Taliban or ISIS. Anyway, I don't think long term Putin will win and so hosting Ukrainians will be short term, and if it's not, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Yes, aslyum seekers, generally speaking (theres always the odd bad apple) want to work, want to integrate, want to build a life here, yet our system which keeps them waiting for up to a decade sometimes, does everything it can to stop them making a life and earing money legally. Ive been saying this for over 20 years!

@lonelyapple

The Tories have refused to build any new housing because they want to keep house prices high and only affordable for the rich/people able to get massive mortgages, so I doubt they'll suddenly start building millions of houses in which case, where will millions of refugee families be housed when there is already a million strong waiting list for housing for people living here? There are only so many people willing to give up spare rooms etc.

No, the main reason that houses aren't being built is because all the NIMBYS threaten to vote Lib Dem if the Tories try to build houses anywhere near them.

The Tories want as many house owners as possible because they are more likely to vote Tory.

They keep trying, but the same people (a lot of whom are on Mumsnet) who want to let refugees in don't want new houses build near them.

In my own experience, many Ukrainians speak good English and have an amazing work ethic and outlook. They would integrate far better than some Middle Eastern refugees. A visa scheme specifically designed to address the huge surplus of unfilled vacancies could work.

Germany let in a million refugees. It was fine. Economically beneficial.

Is that a joke?
They have had no end of problems, not heard about the mass sexual assaults of young women or are they just collateral damage?

@lonelyapple

Germany let in a million refugees. It was fine. Economically beneficial.

Is that a joke?
They have had no end of problems, not heard about the mass sexual assaults of young women or are they just collateral damage?

Yes, and also the rise of the far right.

Post 1980 or so, the whole process of displacing hoards of people as a response to war and economic hardship has disadvantaged more people than it has benefitted if absolutely everything/everyone's interests are factored in

I can't see how leaving people to starve or be killed in a war zone would have improved the sum total of human happiness.

The neighbouring states are far more culturally similar

FFS. This is just xenophobia.

Just say 'I am a narrominded bigot who is scared of people not born in my country' and be proud of who you are.

Just because you don't understand the political, cultural, physical, social, and economic complexities involved here doesn't make it xenophobia.

In my own experience, many Ukrainians speak good English and have an amazing work ethic and outlook. They would integrate far better than some Middle Eastern refugees. A visa scheme specifically designed to address the huge surplus of unfilled vacancies could work.

Now this, this is xenophobia.

@lonelyapple

Germany let in a million refugees. It was fine. Economically beneficial.

Is that a joke?
They have had no end of problems, not heard about the mass sexual assaults of young women or are they just collateral damage?

No human is ever collateral damage.

YANBU in so far as I love your welcoming approach. We absolutely should offer refuge to people fleeing war. We need to assess what resources we have to offer to offer them a reasonable quality of life - no use escaping bombs if you cannot eat in your new home. Some checks do need to be in place, but they should be quick and simple as possible so that people are able to settle as soon as possible.

The reality on the ground is that there have been appeals for accommodation to house refugees from Afghanistan and in my area, and people really wanted to help. Lots of spare rooms were offered for single people. But the majority fleeing were parents with children and there was not much suitable for them. Families fleeing war are usually traumatized and really need to be housed together if at all possible.

I can't hire anyone without that. Not that simple to just 'work' for some people. Would they even have brought over interview clothes with them?

I thought "interview clothes" was weird till I read this...

And to say minimal benefits so they can work is going to put pressure on these people who will probably be feeling a million emotions. They aren't from a third world, they still have pride and standards!!

Wow! This is beyond weird. Now I've confirmed why the saying "third world" and "first world" bothers me so much.

People don't really THINK of how these people will feel
They are expected to arrive here, put in someone's spare room and just find a job

No thought for their feelings and emotions

Unless, of course they're from a "third world". Then who cares about how they feel. After all, they have no pride and standards.

@labyrinthlaziness

Post 1980 or so, the whole process of displacing hoards of people as a response to war and economic hardship has disadvantaged more people than it has benefitted if absolutely everything/everyone's interests are factored in

I can't see how leaving people to starve or be killed in a war zone would have improved the sum total of human happiness.

Human happiness is entirely determined by perspective and subjective experiences. Globalization may have given the impression that uniformity should be applied across the world map but that is the fault of the globalists and has led to skewed expectations.

As a result, people in the West are more unhappy, displaced immigrants are also unhappy for different reasons and I find, generally bitter about the role played by the West in bringing about these conflicts (as they see it). Since we have now reached the lowest point of human satisfaction and we have the benefit of hindsight, it is important to go back to the drawing board and reject the failed 'solutions'.

Let's just open up our spare rooms to complete strangers who we have absolutely no idea about.
After all what could possibly go wrong?

The Channel migrants numbering over 37,000 already are still being put up in hotels etc at vast expense. Any attempt to house them in old barracks etc is met by opposition. Where will we put them, and the afghan people we have taken in, and the Hong Kong people. The UK does what it can according to the size and infrastructure of the country.
Its not just the housing, its education, health services etc, all of which are stretched to the limit.

Most of the Ukrainians will want to go home if Putin is thwarted.

@SlidingInto2022sDMs

I can't hire anyone without that. Not that simple to just 'work' for some people. Would they even have brought over interview clothes with them?

I thought "interview clothes" was weird till I read this...

And to say minimal benefits so they can work is going to put pressure on these people who will probably be feeling a million emotions. They aren't from a third world, they still have pride and standards!!

Wow! This is beyond weird. Now I've confirmed why the saying "third world" and "first world" bothers me so much.

People don't really THINK of how these people will feel
They are expected to arrive here, put in someone's spare room and just find a job

No thought for their feelings and emotions

Unless, of course they're from a "third world". Then who cares about how they feel. After all, they have no pride and standards.

Indeed. Been reading this thread and others with disbelief. Confirms what some people think of POC. We have no pride or standards unlike Europeans.

@Thebestwaytoscareatory

The neighbouring states are far more culturally similar

FFS. This is just xenophobia.

Just say 'I am a narrominded bigot who is scared of people not born in my country' and be proud of who you are.

Just because you don't understand the political, cultural, physical, social, and economic complexities involved here doesn't make it xenophobia.

In my own experience, many Ukrainians speak good English and have an amazing work ethic and outlook. They would integrate far better than some Middle Eastern refugees. A visa scheme specifically designed to address the huge surplus of unfilled vacancies could work.

Now this, this is xenophobia.

Nope- it's my personal experience from having Ukranian staff and a neighbour/good friend. They also feel the same way. In a time when people are desperate to survive in the UK it is hard to view it as cheerily packing people into an inn. Deliberately departing from the economics and heading into wokey-cokey territory is at the root of the problem. However, these movements in consciousness also observe tidal wave patterns and take us from liberal to right wing back to liberal etc. through time