Can Putin launch nukes at several NATO countries at once?

[AbsentmindedWoman]

Obviously, I am completely ignorant about everything to do with nuclear bombs but I have googled, and my tiny mind just doesn't grasp how this works.

In theory, could the UK/ US/ France/ Germany/ several other countries all suffer hits seconds apart?

Or would Putin have to choose one to be the first? How would he choose targets?

I understand the idea of mutual assured destruction if there are just two entities battling it out - but I don't understand how the dynamics of MAD work if it is Russia vs numerous countries, and Putin can only target one area at a time?

Is the nuclear capacity at his disposal really so huge he could take out many major cities and all military bases in Europe and the USA all at once?

*Time to move to Wales I think…

I hear Zanzibar is nice...*

Ah but what if in Russian either of those are early in the alphabet.

Or what if he went alphabetically by city? ....Cardiff.....

(As you can tell I'm avoiding the important parts of the thread for my own sanity....)

@Longdistance

I Find it strange that he sends in his own flying monkeys, then leans on the Belarus army and sends in the Chechens to fight. Are his army not good enough? I suspect he’s not as great as he makes out. Bloody lunatic! Won’t be long before someone internally gets him and turns on him.

His army are largely a bunch of unprepared conscripts.

@PartyAtSueGrays

I too remember the very scary ( to a ten year old) information ads that were on tv. I'm sure one was on just before sat morning kids tv started once. The most important thing I remember though was to hide under a table and drape a white sheet over it. To deflect the blast obviously

The sheet will be to protect against alpha radiation.

I don’t personally think he’ll nuke anywhere as he’d get it back 10 fold and by the looks of his photos in office he sits at the far end of the table, supposedly because he’s worried about catching covid. So I’d say he’d also be scared of being killed by a nuclear attack.

I'm still not sure I agree Betty. I can see your point, but I'm just not sure I believe that in the case of a single strike that NATO's only available option would be just to end everything. I don't think anyone could say with complete confidence that ANY nuclear use would automatically lead to MAD. It's very important that it appears that it would, because otherwise there's no deterrent. I still think that there's a possibility that the nature of the first strike would affect the scale and nature of the response. Let's hope we never find out!

@Kingharoldshairstyle

Yes this is the point

If Putin launched an attach the nuclear missile would be launched in return before it landed. The missiles would pass each other in the air.

It’s really not as simple as Putin attacks and that’s it. If Putin launched, Russia would literally be hit a max of fifteen mins later. It’s a lose lose situation

And Putin generals know this, you need a number of codes as well. One man can’t do it, Putin nuking another country is one hundred percent the same result as Putin nuking Russia. It’s the same end result.

Would those people go against him though and refuse to push their button?

@shreddednips

I'm still not sure I agree Betty. I can see your point, but I'm just not sure I believe that in the case of a single strike that NATO's only available option would be just to end everything. I don't think anyone could say with complete confidence that ANY nuclear use would automatically lead to MAD. It's very important that it appears that it would, because otherwise there's no deterrent. I still think that there's a possibility that the nature of the first strike would affect the scale and nature of the response. Let's hope we never find out!

It would necessarily escalate it can't not. Say Russia nuked Poland, NATO doesn't respond? Then what? They hand it over? Im confused at what possible scenario you have in mind and how it benefits Russia.

The West has crippled Russias economy due to a conventional attack on a non NATO country. They haven't done this because they give a shit about the Ukrainian people, they have done this because they need to send a message to Russia that there will be no acquiescence.

You can't think in terms of loss of life (although that is of course the point in the broader sense) but of loss of power. The risk to the US of not retaliating to a Russian attack on NATO is devastating. It completely changes Americas position as a global superpower which will have a huge knock on effect. Plus it increases proliferation and puts nukes in the picture for all wars. Why should NK use theirs? Why shouldn't Saudi develop some? It changes the system that the US set up and benefits from.

Russia understands all that, they know the risk of NATO not retaliating is huge. The implicit understanding of nuclear engagement is that if your side isn't willing to do it, theirs is.

Apparently he has intercontinental ballistic missiles which reach top speed in 10 minutes, could reach the UK in 20 and wipe out London. They would also be able to reach the US. He has thousands of the things.
But what good would nuking the rest of the world do? Where are all the oligarchs going to go on holibobs and own second homes? Where will the get their luxury goods?

@ToniLaRoni

*Time to move to Wales I think…

I hear Zanzibar is nice...*

Ah but what if in Russian either of those are early in the alphabet.

Or what if he went alphabetically by city? ....Cardiff.....

(As you can tell I'm avoiding the important parts of the thread for my own sanity....)

you had best check whats in wales first, my mother came from derby kids were evacuated there in the ww2 but the RR factory was there and got bombed as it made plane engines.

its the air bases they would go for and they tend to be in the countryside rather spread out, cornwall would be absolute toast because of the navy base at plymouth, with the yield of a modern nuke and us being such a tiny country I doubt there would be a safe space. Russia's latests nukes have a 50 mile radios

Would those people go against him though and refuse to push their button?

Pushing the button is suicide, and kills every one and everything they know. Not pushing it only has a risk of killing them as an individual. So yes I suspect they won’t push it, or enter the code.

and thats 50 miles per warhead, a russian hypersonic ICBM can carry 12 warheads. and each of those can individually target.

I am interested in all this not sure why, I have watched alot about japan and chernobyl, not interested in fukishima not sure why maybe in a few years when it looks more overgrown like the zone. it'll perk my interest more but most of the mess it cause was to the sea.

Ah OK yes I see. But what I'm driving at is, even if NATO retaliated which I can see that they would, I've heard a lot of people saying things along the lines that everyone would just chuck everything they had at it and the world would end. Surely there would be some attempt at strategy so that the situation could be deescalated? I'm not sure what the point is of not surrendering power if literally no one is alive to care either way.

@Kingharoldshairstyle

Would those people go against him though and refuse to push their button?

Pushing the button is suicide, and kills every one and everything they know. Not pushing it only has a risk of killing them as an individual. So yes I suspect they won’t push it, or enter the code.

Vasili Arkhipov

People seem to have this idea that there is a big red button in every head of state's office. There is a long old chain of command, codes authorised for release, at least two people entering different codes, multiple keys being turned at the same time etc...

Every time we've come close someone along that chain of command had stepped back and said 'no'.

@shreddednips

Ah OK yes I see. But what I'm driving at is, even if NATO retaliated which I can see that they would, I've heard a lot of people saying things along the lines that everyone would just chuck everything they had at it and the world would end. Surely there would be some attempt at strategy so that the situation could be deescalated? I'm not sure what the point is of not surrendering power if literally no one is alive to care either way.

Indeed and that is the entire point. Both sides have made the consequences literally apocalyptic. Again though what would be the point of a single nuclear strike on a NATO country? And imagine if they did, well there is no reason for NATO to think it is singular. They will likely see it before it hits anything. How do they know that isn't the only one they detected and the rest have evaded detection? How do they know that wasn't an error that accidentally went slightly before the rest? Why not New York or London next? Plus they attacked NATO, its so unimaginable who knows what they will do next.

Plus to our current knowledge the US would suffer considerably less than Russia from a second strike. I don't want to go too much into the logistics but basically a first strike is a huge wave of nukes across a huge area with multiple targets. Obviously they would try and take out as much of the targets nuclear capability as possible. A second strike is the same thing but in retaliation. The US had much better second strike capability than Russia. Basically if the US was faced with a possibility of a Russian first strike it makes much more sense for them to hit first. And if Russia did launch a nuclear strike on any NATO country it certainly becomes a very real possibility.

Putin may be many things, but I don't think he's insane.

He will know full well that now he's even so much as hinted at it, NATO will be watching every move made by his land based silos and NATO submarines will be shadowing the Russian fleet with direct orders to engage in the event of missile launch. Submariners can't and don't fuck around.

Putin knows that the other nuclear powers will be ready to counter strike. Putin knows that his generals also know this.

There is a huge difference between an invasion and inviting wholesale Death to your own country.

Ok, thank you that's interesting! For some weird reason, it actually makes me feel better to know what would happen.

Apparently Putin has moved his family to an underground bunker/town in Siberia. One designed to be ok in a nuclear war.

@shreddednips

Ok, thank you that's interesting! For some weird reason, it actually makes me feel better to know what would happen.

Me too. That's how I know that stuff I used to be terrified of nuclear war (child of the 80s), nightmares etc. Finding out how it actually works reduced all my anxiety (even though its horrifying).

@CovidCorvid

Apparently Putin has moved his family to an underground bunker/town in Siberia. One designed to be ok in a nuclear war.

The source for that is a complete crank, little better than David Icke.

@CovidCorvid

Apparently Putin has moved his family to an underground bunker/town in Siberia. One designed to be ok in a nuclear war.

But I would think that's to protect them as people could target them to get to him

OP the only reason Russia have never fired a nuclear weapon in the past was not the fear of other countries. It actually stems from the fear of a Nuclear Winter.

The scientific predictions suggest that a nuclear war would result in such significate ecological effects to the planet we would enter a nuclear winter effectively freezing all life on earth (think snow piercer series). If the war did not wipe out the planet the ecological effects of freezing would.

@TimeToMakeACupofTea

I reckon he’d go in alphabetical order.

This gave me a smile, thanks!

@CovidCorvid

Apparently Putin has moved his family to an underground bunker/town in Siberia. One designed to be ok in a nuclear war.

But that would be no use to him if the shit hit the fan, there's no point in being in even quite a fancy bunker once you run out of food. I agree with PP that if it's true, it's probably to stop anyone from targeting them. And it also makes people feel uneasy when it's reported, there's so much posturing going on.

Casually laughing through this thanks to @Deliberateplanning.