To smack 20mth old for scratching me first?

[yankey]

My dd gets frustrated (like them all I imagine), however when she is annoyed at me for changing her nappy or getting her dressed etc when she doesn't want to she starts to dig her nails into my hands and angrily scratch me. I now have about 7 or 8 small scabs on my hands. Now I always said I wouldn't hit my dd but if she hits or scratches first I think that is different. Only thing is I am not sure if this is the best way of dealing with this unacceptable behaviour. Advise (without insults or ridicule from the 'holier then though's) much appreciated.

Didn't mean to post twice, sorry!

My dd used to have a 4 o'clock temper tantrum between the ages of 1 1/2 and 2. This would entail punching and scratching me, usually on my face, I had scars for months and yes, it hurts when you're punched in the face by an 18month old but what is the point in hitting her? It teaches her nothing!

You have to show her how to behave.

Can you change where/how you do things?

e.g. if your dd lies down for nappy changes then maybe you should update you technique so that she can stand up.
Maybe you can get her involved in getting herself dressed to make it a game i.e. do you want to wear this top or this top? (Don't offer her more than two choices as you'll open up another can of worms and you don't want to go there). Don't get her to try to do anything too hard either as she'll probably go mad if she can't do it.

By the way, (and I'm sure I'll get shot for this) in my opinion she's old enough for time out.

The way I do it, it works a la Tanya Byron.

Please don't go down the smacking route, it'll take you to places you don't want to be.

At 20 months, facial expressions are one of the best ways to teach a child.

Develop a facial expression that says 'no, don't do thatsweetheart, it's not nice, it hurts mummy' and say the phrase with it. If you keep repeating that and doing 'the face' it will get to a point where you only have to look at her and she'll understand.

She is 20months old, practically a baby, by scratching you she is in effect saying 'get off me, I dont want this' work out why she doesnt want it, what doesnt she like, and change it.

I'm not totally against smacking btw but the only time I will advocate it is when a situation is dangerous and you need an immediate fix (ie child running into road or touching fire etc)

Yankey, something I've said to the boys in the past if they've hit me in frustration is "We don't hit in this house".

If you hit, you lose the ability to say that and it's a strong thing to be able to say, imo and ime.

You are talking about lashing out in temper at your baby.

Yes. Unreasonable. But you know that.

She didn't do it to you. At that age they simply do stuff based on how they're feeling. There's no malice and they aren't trying to hurt you, they react to what they are feeling and spew that out, they don't consider you at all, iyswim, and the best advice I can give you is to try to remember that.

It is important to recognise that you are feeling frustration and that your feelings are your responsibility, and that you must not go down the road of blaming your child for your feelings and treating her in a certain way because of that.

When she begins to bring her hands to you, stop whatever you are doing (no matter how messy or inconvenient you may feel it is to do so) and grab her hands. Use the fact you are stronger and quicker. Hold her hands - but not hurting her - and look at her and say "No hitting" then lower her arms to her sides and let go. When she moves them up again to have another go (and she will), grab them again, say "No." and lower them and let go.

Do this every single time, firmly and calmly. Don't expect instant results.
But eventually she will learn.

And take a deep breath and try to relax. Parenting is hard. None of us have all the answers and we all feel angry and overwhelmed at times and we all make mistakes and mishandle things and we learn from that.

Of course yabu. (pretty childish too)

not read anything but here is a tip USE MITTENS on her hands . Smacking teaches her nothing. Restricting her liberties might. And even if it doesn't, it will stop the sharp pain which quickens the angry reaction.

You can't teach a child that scratching is wrong by giving them a smack even if it is only a tap. I have smacked ds on two occasions and they both came back to haunt me. On one occasion he charged head first into the wine aisle in the supermarket and I had visions of him lying in a pool of blood because he had severed an artery or something, I tapped him on the bottom and explained that I was cross because it was such a dangerous thing to do. A couple of days later I dropped a bottle of wine in Waitrose next thing I feel a wallop across my backside and a little voice pipes up "You shouldn't do that mummy it is very dangerous". . The other occasion was when we had a particularly hellish day and ds kicked me in the tummy when I was undressing him, I tapped his leg and told him that kicking was spiteful, he then smacked me and says "smacking is spiteful too mummy".

For ds I have found the most effective discipline tools to be the naughty step and star charts even though I was initially sceptical. At 20 months your dd is too young for these but as other posters have already said you just need to be firm but gentle and keep reinforcing the message that scratching is wrong it will work in the long run.

"Advise (without insults or ridicule from the 'holier then though's) much appreciated." That was optomistic yankey

To be fair, i don't think that smacking helps at all. I have a child who is going through an agressive stage, i have tried smaking her bum during nappy changing when she was kicking out at me (deliberately) but to be totally honest she took absolutely no notice whatsoever. Clearly i didnt smack her very hard, just a tap but it was completely useless and DD thought it was a great game!. Also, as i am sure many have pointed out (not read thread - dont need to!) it does rather suggest that it acceptable to hit when you are cross. I think it is best to blatantly ignore the behaviour and battle on with the nappy changing. That sends the message that she can writhe and scream as much as she likes, you are going to finish the job and that sort of behaviour has no rewards.

Of course, ive made no progress with 2yr old agression, i have tried the naughty step, she thinks its great

I find that saying, owww youve hurt mummy, lead to a game where DD would smack me just so she could give me a cuddle (no its not the only time she has cuddles!!).

So i would say, you are not being unreasonable but it is the wrong approach.

I am also not 100% against smacking but nothing good will be achieved by smacking a 20 month old. If you think it will stop her, think again, she will just copy you in other situations then you will have a scratching and hitting 20 months old.

I know its tempting to think they re being defiant if they go ahead and scratch when you've told them not to but they aren't thinking about things that clearly.

Holding the hand firmly and saying no worked for me provided you do it consistently.

I can understand your frustration. But I don't think it will help and you will feel very guilty. She won't understand why you have hit het and it will betray her trust in you.
A stern NO with an angry face is highly effective IMO.

Can I also say that wise bit of info we all need to remind ourselves of at time.

It is just a phase, one which she will grow out of, and if she sees you don't use violence of any form to control situations, nor will she.

Not unreasonable to feel tempted, I don't think - ds (2) kicked me on my (v.pregnant) tummy this morning and it really hurt and I did want to smack his leg (resisted). But I really don't think it would help in this situation. They have so littlre self-control at this ge and no concept of hurting others.

Personally I've not ruled out the occasional smack but am saving it for the really big no-nos (which I hope will never come).

of course YABU.

It's up to you as the adult to show her that hurting people is not a good thing to do. How could smacking her ever, in a million years, EVER show her that?

I will have a search for info on the naughty step but think dd is too young at this stage. Think I will go back to No's and maybe saying 'gently' as dd understands these words. Thanks to those with useful advise and similar experiences.

She's 20 months old. Still a baby.

She does not understand that it hurts you - she hasn't developed empathy yet.

She will not be able to work out that you are hurting her because she hurt you - all she knows is that the Mummy she loves and trusts has just deliberately hurt her.

Plus how do you teach her that hurting is wrong, if the way you chose to do that involves hurting her?

Er, how about keeping her nails a bit shorter?

Haven't read the whole post but yes you are being unreasonable to smack her (IMO) a firm no would be my approach. I know it can be so frustrating at times when presented over and over with unacceptable behaviour but she is still only a baby and I don't thikn smacking is the answer.

I haven't read all the replies, but yes YABU but you know that.

Try cutting her nails,distraction your dc does not know what she is doing is wrong.

ahh, I see. She's too young for the naughty step...

but not too young for a smack.

hmm.. can't really see where you're coming from there I'm afraid!

Kids get lots, lots more frustrating and challenging than a few scratches from a 20 month old. You just need to use some very basic parenting strategies like distraction because basically if you don't get some strategies in your pocket now, what will you do when much more challenging behaviour starts? You would be smacking your child for half of every day if you start smacking for this sort of thing

yankey - i guess if i'm honest, it wasn't so much a time out as a chance for both (but probably mostly) me and dd to calm down a bit. It took me about 4 months to learn to be punched/scratched in the face without feeling the urge to retaliate!

But a timeout at this stage = 1minute away from you. It's a good parenting technique as the things children do would irriate/annoy a saint and learning to walk away, calm down and then respond is no bad thing!

I used a time out with my 22 month dd. She was biting so we put up the travel cot in the living room and put her in there with a firm 'no' every time she did it. Its worked for us (she was confused at first - she would bite and then try to climb in herself )

As someone said earlier, the facial expression tactic is good too. Smaking a baby doesn't work. They will just pick up that its okay to hit when angry.

hth

IMO YABU. I don't do smacking myself at all. Why teach a child not to be aggresive/violent by using an aggresive action yourself. Just doesn't make sense to me. But anyway...

But even if I did then I certainly would think a 20mo is way too small to be hitting. She is a baby and has no real concept of right and wrong.

Just distract and avoid at this age, and she will grow out of it.

A firm no, ouch or maybe even a pretend cry from you is enough at this age IMO, and then move her away from you. And don't expect her to remember that it is wrong every time at 20mo old either - most research seem,s to suggest she won't remember just yet.

And cut her nails short so she can't leave scratches.

At 20 months time out will only be 1-2 minutes anyway, maximum - enough time for you to say no, and show a sad face, and move her away from you. But enough to show her that you didn't like what she did very much.

And demonstrate gentle, kind touching/behaviour afterwards.