Drag Queen at a Primary School Thread 2

[Lennyllama]

Following on from my previous thread.

Link to first thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4489168-Drag-Queen-at-a-Primary-School

Have the school responded yet?

Good luck, OP. I skimmed through the whole of thread 1. Extraordinary.

Re panto: it's a long time since I went to one, but it used to be traditional not just to have a man playing the Dame but also to have a woman playing the Principal Boy. As far as I'm concerned, panto fits into the long tradition of having some sort of festival/performance in the dark, dour days of winter that turns normal life on its head, like the Roman Saturnalia where masters served slaves, or the mediaeval Feast of Fools which had a boy elected as a pretend bishop or peasant elected to be the Lord of Misrule.

I know nothing about drag, and have no interest in learning more, but it sounds very different. As others have pointed out, there may be many woman fans of RuPaul's Drag Race, but that means it's ordinary women watching and dutifully laughing at men taking centre stage, dressed in a weird and sexualised parody of femininity. Wow, so progressive!

The link for the first thread just takes me back to the AIBU home page, and I was reading the first thread, got to page 6 (I have 100 posts a page) and when I refreshed that thread, it disappeared and I was back on AIBU home page.

Is anyone else having an issue?

MN seem to have edited the title, which is kind, but has messed up the link in the OP.

Try this: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4489168-Drag-Queen-at-a-Primary-School-continuation-thread-here-https-www-mumsnet-com-Talk-am-i-being-unreasonable-4490413-Drag-Queen-at-a-Primary-School-Thread-2-watched-1

[quote Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]MN seem to have edited the title, which is kind, but has messed up the link in the OP.

Try this: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4489168-Drag-Queen-at-a-Primary-School-continuation-thread-here-https-www-mumsnet-com-Talk-am-i-being-unreasonable-4490413-Drag-Queen-at-a-Primary-School-Thread-2-watched-1[/quote]
Thank you!

Yes, that works.

On the previous thread Binty observed that Hollywood actors don't have different identities for starring in children's films and films rated 15+/18+.

This is true. They do not. It is also true that Hollywood production companies don't believe in giving films away for free, and put a lot of effort into suppressing film piracy. They gatekeep films and the aim is that you should only be able to access 15+/18+ Hollywood films by showing your ID at the cinema or showing your ID when you purchase the DVD.

They are also obliged to carefully curate which sections they use for film trailers, in case children see them.

So this does not hold up as an analogy when we consider a drag queen who uses the same professional name for marketing himself as an entertainer for adult events as he does for events entertaining children at a school, and who has "steamy" content under that professional name.

I mean, Hollywood actors appear in personal situations as themselves, not personas. They might change their names but they don't generally come to school visits and such as their roles, with rare exceptions.

And when you look at the actors one might be inclined to invite to a primary school, it will generally be actors that have at some time performed in something that might be appropriate for children. As opposed to actors who are only in films that are not appropriate for kids to watch. Because why would the kids be interested in that?

As someone else on the last thread pointed out, for equality, what would be the female equivalent? Drag kings aren't massive.

Strip, pole dance or burlesque?

Why don't they come into schools and read a story?

One of the many reasons given for the terrifyingly huge increase in the number of ftm transitioners in their teens or very early 20s is that there are so few female role models who are gender nonconforming or openly lesbian, let alone butch lesbians. That's something schools could address.

There are any number of people it would be good and useful for children to hear from other than extrovert male performers with a penchant for lurex and wigs. It's not like there are no other chances for children to find out drag exists. The BBC and other mainstream media feature it with monotonous regularity.

DQ in schools, aside all the inappropriateness, brings nothing to the table.

It's adding to the hyper focus we have in society on what we look like rather than what we do.

The message that boys can wear dresses is a moot point. And? There's enough visual media telling them that. Kids don't go to school to learn what they can wear.

Tackling bullying around chosen colours and outfits is an entirely different thing and can very easily be dealt with in school. I used to read Bills new frock by Anne Fine for this very reason. It was much more effective at teaching other's POV.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

On the previous thread Binty observed that Hollywood actors don't have different identities for starring in children's films and films rated 15+/18+.

This is true. They do not. It is also true that Hollywood production companies don't believe in giving films away for free, and put a lot of effort into suppressing film piracy. They gatekeep films and the aim is that you should only be able to access 15+/18+ Hollywood films by showing your ID at the cinema or showing your ID when you purchase the DVD.

They are also obliged to carefully curate which sections they use for film trailers, in case children see them.

So this does not hold up as an analogy when we consider a drag queen who uses the same professional name for marketing himself as an entertainer for adult events as he does for events entertaining children at a school, and who has "steamy" content under that professional name.

How does it not hold up? Take Chris Rock or Kevin Hart for example, both of whom have appeared in successful family films, (Madagascar and Jumanji respectively) but if you Google either of those people you'll find their stand-up which is certainly not suitable for young ears. How is this any different from a kid googling the person that visited them in school to do an age appropriate show and finding their more risqué stuff?

Oh FGS what use is it for us to sit around picking apart pointless analogies? If an actor wanted to visit my children's school dressed like the DQ in question did, I'd have a big fucking problem with it.

@WarriorN

DQ in schools, aside all the inappropriateness, brings nothing to the table.

It's adding to the hyper focus we have in society on what we look like rather than what we do.

The message that boys can wear dresses is a moot point. And? There's enough visual media telling them that. Kids don't go to school to learn what they can wear.

Tackling bullying around chosen colours and outfits is an entirely different thing and can very easily be dealt with in school. I used to read Bills new frock by Anne Fine for this very reason. It was much more effective at teaching other's POV.

Honestly at this point I don't want schools to invite anyone or promote anything. I want them to stop giving audiobooks to my 14 year old's class and have them read something substantial.

Have the school responded OP?

The only response has been a very vague message on the weekly newsletter saying parents should approach the school directly with any concerns about activities at the school. They did not mention the DQ at all.

Shocking

I too would be interested in their response, OP.

I have seen nothing compelling in the posts of those attempting to defend this decision. The false comparisons, the downplaying of the lowering of boundaries.

None of it compelling. And All of it falls in to the usual denigration and shaming of anyone who does see it as a safeguarding fail.

Same old, same old. And we watch history repeating itself, but this time there is the determination to attempt to obscure it under ‘inclusion’ and ‘diversity’.

I've been following this thread with interest. I'm wondering if the school will respond to your concerns next week. It would appear that Dolly Trolley has removed the posts from the school visit from their Instagram and Facebook accounts (might be wrong, but I can't seem to see them anymore).

OP can you update us next week please?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10555483/Outrage-primary-school-invites-drag-queen-Dolly-Trolley-dance-nine-year-olds.html

A spokesman for Merton Council, on behalf of the school and Dolly Trolley, said: 'Hollymount School held a themed week to underline its commitment to diversity. Neither the school nor the governors are aware of any formal complaints.'

Really? I think they may find there are a few follow up calls, letters and emails next week now clearly marked 'THIS IS A FORMAL COMPLAINT, IN CASE YOU WERE IN ANY DOUBT, AND I WANT AN ANSWER'.

Well it made the DM now

Where there any other individuals invited to the school or literally just an adult entertainer?

How is this any different from a kid googling the person that visited them in school to do an age appropriate show and finding their more risqué stuff?

I would say ‘the person that visited them in school’ is the defining factor