Government stuffing young people again, student loans

[Binjob118]

Great day to bury the news that from next year student loans will be repayed over 40 years instead of 30. This makes a massive difference. Hate this government and Tony bloody Blair for stopping free tuition. Of course, won't affect all the rich kids who never take out the loan. This on top of impossibility of young people ever being able to buy a home makes me want to scream. Totally screwed. Certainly don't think IABU!!

Autocorrect gone mad. It’s 50:50 law grads for solicitors and higher law grads for barristers .

@Wannabangbang seems many people are happy for it to be like this you only have to look at some of the comments on here
Do people actually think they will pay less tax anyway even if the numbers dropped , when has that ever happened

@microbius its a shame many posters can't see that
Thats how i am looking at uni for ds , its more than just a degree
Im hoping he will learn life experiences, see what its like to live in a city as opposed to our small town , meet may different people from all backgrounds etc
He only has a rough idea or what he wants to do , 3 career paths all quite different but all needing a degree
Hes taken a gap year to work and have some money and its made him realise he doesn't want a dead end job, people he works with have been doing same job on similar pay for years in temp contracts due to lack of jobs available for them

@DottyHarmer

Frankly I think it should be backdated. I know someone who has a degree and MA and will intentionally never work. So nothing to pay back - ever. At least the fees should be collected from estates when people die in the distant future. Plenty of people earn just under the threshold for repayment too.

Sadly if you have near-on 50% of young people going to university, this is what happens. And, as usual, it will be the schmucks in the middle who suffer - the middle earners

I care less about “silly” degrees which are actually vocational; I object to people studying English at a place that until five minutes ago was a HE college. I can’t remember the place but it was in the news that at just such an establishment the students were studying Harry Potter and The Hunger Games. That is a disgrace; it is Year 6 level.

So you're in favour of the terms of financial agreements being changed in retrospect, without any input? Presumably that means you'd be fine with your mortgage interest rates suddenly tripling despite signing up to a fixed rate, or your electricity supplier saying you now have to pay the year in advance or you'll get cut off?

As other posters have pointed out, studying English Lit at degree level isn't like writing a book report aged 10

My issue with student loans is that tuition and maintenance loans are all bundled up together. We can debate forever about the value of various subjects, but ultimately 3x£9k, while expensive, is probably something most people who get a fairly good job after graduating, will either pay off, or come very close to, after 30 years in work, even with interest.

The people with £50k loans are the ones with full maintenance loans too, which is fully understandable because otherwise how can they make ends meet. In some countries in Europe more students tend to study at their local universities rather than moving away. I do see a bit of a problem with these loans never paid off, just because I don't think how it's fair that Jayden doing an apprentice who has to leave home aged 19 because his CB has stopped and there's no room for him, or Chantelle the 18 year old care leaver, have to pay their own way in rent/food etc from such a young age, out of their low wages/minimal benefits, whereas Jocasta and Jonty can have a 3 year loan to pay for theirs, which if they only get a low paid job because they marry well/become a SAHP/retire early because of a good inheritance from mummy and daddy (or grandparents), they never have to pay off.

@worriedatthemoment you need to get into the best degree course for your subject area you are able to. So this may be a post-1992 university or it may be a red brick.

And even if you don't there are activities and things you can do while at university to make yourself more employable.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@DdraigGoch but its not so surely you fix that issue before the loans and university
If there were more alternative options do you think so many would go , of course not
Its like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted [/quote]
If companies find that they can't recruit, then they will need to either raise wages to poach staff, or cough up to train their own.

I'm in a role where there is no provision at all for external training, it's all (several months in a classroom, much longer for some other grades) done by the employer. Wages have risen to reflect the way that the number of trained staff equals the number of positions, rather than there being a surplus.

Government funding for universities as a public good in itself, shouldn't be there to provide employers with cheap trained staff. Employers should be funding that themselves - and if they aren't they will find themselves short. Public funding for universities should be for the overall development of humankind, not for filling the graduate schemes of major banks.

I believe that lot of the debt can be reduced just by living at home and commuting to a nearby uni. Even factoring in travel costs it would save a lot of money. Quite common in London. So many great unis at your doorstep!

@microbus, as a former admissions tutor I mostly share your ideals - I have seen a small number of courses around the country that I believe, and statistics show, are really problematic.

18 - 22 year olds are still growing up with rapidly changing brains and society needs to support this. University should not be the only comprehensive way of doing so. However I am also appalled by this particular change and the inequalities it will deepen.

@downtonabbeyfan1234 does that not depend where you live and how much travel is if you have to go in for an hr here and there and extra curricular if you represent uni in a sport say , as well as part of learning independence etc
To go to a great uni we would have to travel upwards of an 1.5 by car 2 hrs plus by train one way

@latetothefisting in both those scenarios they would prob receive housing benefit or top up to wages which funnily enough also come out of tax payers money , difference is they won't have ti pay any of that back

@worriedatthemoment yes I understand. I believe London has good transport links for commuters so they can still live at home and fully engage with being a student in London. Obviously if you live in a small town, probs harder.

@RedWingBoots to be honest to us its all new neither myself or dh went to university so we have no idea
My son chose a course and several places , he also applied for a policing course thats run alongside training i believe but was turned down for that , so that left him with university , he has got in to bournemouth I have no idea if its good or not for his course
He is working in the gap year full time so hopefully we don't have to take out all the maintenance loan for all 3 years at least and plans to get a part time job or summer / agency work
He will likely play a sport that he is quite good at as well so I think if he does well he will be employable as it will show he can learn and be educated as well as having a work ethic to go alongside and work experience

I will never pay off my student loan within 30 years so i would be mad to try and overpay on it.
Instead I just see it as an 'education' tax and as the amount I pay is linked to my income, its not a huge tax and is affordable.
Whilst I wish it had been free, I'm not upset at having to pay an education tax for 30 years and can't say it would be devastating to me if I had to pay it for 40 years

@downtonabbeyfan1234 yes London and if you happen to live in bristol or bath say its fine but for many if us we don't
For my son im seeing the moving out and going to live in a larger busier place all part of the learning process as well
Its alright saying go get a job and live in a city but if your on min wage its often tough to afford anything
We are only young once that to me is the time to get some experiences before we settle down and have large mortgages , stressful jobs and bills to pay
Its proven that our brains are not even mature At that age

[quote RedWingBoots]@DdraigGoch How do you know the subject area shouldn't be a degree?

You are just going on the title not on what the course covers.

Anyway my point is people are saying a particular subject is mickey mouse not understanding what the degree entails. I actually know some STEM courses that have mickey mouse sounding titles and people who have done them through the years.[/quote]
Was it possible to do X job without a degree in the past? If so, why is a degree suddenly so essential?

[quote worriedatthemoment]@latetothefisting in both those scenarios they would prob receive housing benefit or top up to wages which funnily enough also come out of tax payers money , difference is they won't have ti pay any of that back[/quote]
I've just been on entitled to - an apprentice renting a room would be entitled to 48 pounds a week universal credit to supplement their less than minimum wage income. That works out less than two and a half grand a year. Maximum maintenance loan is ten thousand a year.

And even if we don't use the extreme examples of the very poor - why should an eighteen-twenty one year old working full time in a shop earning just enough not to be entitled to any benefits at all have to pay their rent and maintenance up front whereas someone the same age can potentially get it for free?

@thevassal but the average student will pay back what they borrowed and you have looked at housing only , there are other things as well that will be free
And if that person does that job for 20 years always getting a top up. Which they never pay back
Not many get a £10000 maintenance loan either

@InTheNightWeWillWish

I don’t think it should be a loan or that there should be fees, it should be a graduate tax. That’s essentially what the people who had to take a loan have. The current system falls down when students whose parents can pay the fees up front have extra disposable income afterwards. One of DH’s friends, his parents paid his tuition fees. His parents were able to gift him a large sum towards a house. They’re the same age as parents but have been able to retire earlier and look after their child. DH’s friend has a lower mortgage due to a considerable cash gift, have no childcare fees and no student loan repayment. A graduate tax makes it much more equal for those who choose to go to university regardless of their background.

I have the maximum loans pre-2012, I’m from a lower income background and paid for my masters by working full time. I don’t think the whole population should pay for my education but I don’t think the loan system works.

Totally agree. A graduate tax would be much fairer.

@Sandinmyknickers interesting name! Made me smirk.

@thevassal point is why can't we support both
Its the high cost of fees and interest that is a big issue most will pay back what they borrow it will be interest etc that doesn't get paid
So take my nephew who is 23 only just recently started working part time , been getting £350 ish a month for close on 5 years , chooses not to work , is it fair we pay that - he will never pay a penny back
My ds will pay his loan back and tax etc at an earlier age than my nephew so will actually cost the tax payers much less

Blair was a wanker for making students pay but Cameron was an even bigger wanker for tripling the debt.

Barely anyone pays it all off before they die anyway so it isn’t really a big issue. Most people don’t even notice it leaving their salary each month, I know I don’t.

@worriedatthemoment Sorry but I don't agree. The average teacher wage is 32k apparently. So you would earn about 2,600 pre tax. Your student loan deduction on that is about 90 quid a month.

How is that impossible to pay back? If 90 quid a month on a 32k salary is impossible to pay back then I'm sorry but that's everything to do with the individual being financially irresponsible

@Frankola its impossible to pay back £50000 plus interest at 90 a month over 30/40 years yes , do the maths yourself
Im not saying they should pay nothing
Did you not read the poster earlier who has said they have paid £10000 back so far but the loan is still more than they borrowed due to the interest

@SartresSoul how is it bad to pay? Money doesn't grow on trees you know? It's entirely fair to pay for a service that you use.