To think school have over reacted

[worriedmum2022]

So my girls are 7 and 9 and they were playing at home and got a bit rough, my husband separated them and one of them had hold of a game in a plastic box.

The girls were fighting over who had the box husband intervened the side of the box had split and youngest 7 year old daughter got a cut on her hand. Cleaned up, girls spoken too all sorted job done

Yesterday the headteacher of dd7 rang my husband at work to say she asked dd why she had a plaster on her hand and she said daddy snatched a box off me and it cut me

She has reported this as a safeguarding concern

I mean I get they have a duty of care but this just seems a total over-reaction

No previous issues or incidents with the school but my husband is worried sick as he works where he has to have a DBS and he's worried this will be on his record

Can anyone offer any advice on this type of thing?

I agree sometimes questions do sound accusatory or feel that way. Basically, wanting to know if you know how it happened-obviously to see if it fits with the mechanics of the injury, but also supervision could be an issue with small children for example if lots of small incidents happen.
I think they have to be clear and specific questions in case it goes further and police or courts are involved. Not nice I know, and maybe some workers are a bit zealous or have a poor tone but there’s not a lot you can do. If you raise attitude as a problem then that won’t go down so well and personally I would avoid annoying them whilst everything is low key at least.
The school has safeguarding guidance to follow, which whilst it seems possibly OTT reading here, I doubt it was from their POV. And again I wouldn’t raise anything unless you have clear evidence of bad practice, folk are human, busy and don’t generally like being questioned on their actions in their professional capacity, so keep things as amicable as possible.

Did she ask for the other side? Generally we’d do that too.

This isn’t how safe guarding should work. The school should be keeping your daughter’s confidentiality. Imagine if your husband was cruel, the schools actions could have escalated it.

I'd be mad too if it was me, I think questioning your child without your permission isnt on either, surely you need to consent as the parent? Kids say all kinds of weird and wonderful things when you ask how did they do something or if you just question them. My kids would say I love wine and gin (I have a glass at the weekend!!) but I'd sound alcoho if you asked my 4 and 5 year olds! Same if they get an injury just last night my 4 year old wasn't looking and ran into me he shouted "you pushed me" erm no you ran into me!! I'd be worried if my kids were interviewed and not because we are guilty of anything, just the weird shit kids come out with!

School do have to make sure they protect children but this sounds ott. The sad thing is them wasting time on this is taking them away from an abused child elsewhere. My friends reported their neighbours to ss ages ago, constant shouting and swearing at their children and crying from the children, they are still doing it 18 months on, its certainly emotional abuse if it isnt physical. They clearly need help yet ss waste time on silly incidents like this.

@Ohyesiam

This isn’t how safe guarding should work. The school should be keeping your daughter’s confidentiality. Imagine if your husband was cruel, the schools actions could have escalated it.

Wrong......It’s exactly how safeguarding works

@LondonQueen

We have to record any and all safeguarding concerns, injuries included. It doesn't mean there will be follow up, we just have to keep a record so we can see any patterns developing.

It's a shame common sense isn't permitted.

A small cut/scratched with an ordinary plaster on, isn't 'an injury'.

It's sad that people are referring to Arthur (& other abused children) to try to explain this away. In his case serious abuse was reported and fuck all was done. they knew & did fuck all. This is a 7yo with an ordinary plaster... common sense needs to kick in

I think that's what confuses people. In his case there seemed to be little interaction beyond people pulling their hair out at SS inaction (IIRC) and then cases like this where there seems to be immediate reaction.

It's the disparity that is worrying. Unless this is a direct result of previous failings?

The 3 houses method is a sheet of paper with 3 houses on it.
The kids tell the sw what happens in their sad house, happy house and house of dreams. It's a standard way of getting the kids wishes and feelings.
I used to work in Safeguarding and it seems a bit of an over reaction for a one off incident. We would always be concerned if an adult has injured a child but if the stories match and are feasible then normally there would be nothing else happen.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d be upset. However I equally understand that the school has to make sure it’s covered their bases in case it escalates or a pattern emerges so they can say they recorded everything by the book if there was ever an investigation. I highly doubt anything will come of it following one incident, but the school have to be proactive regardless otherwise they may come under fire if things were to get worse and they were seen to not of done anything (not saying this is the case in your situation, but it could be in another’s situation). Still I sympathise, it can’t of been nice to hear.

My youngest has ADHD and was very impulsive, so loads of injuries even broken bones, some injuries even happened at school. I’m sure there was a massive file on him at school. We always informed the school what had happened, if we had been to a GP, A &E at the children’s hospital etc. I’m sure that they also asked him separately from us to compare explanations. We never heard from SS’s, even though I expected it when we were yet again at the GP or A&E. I have a DBS as I work with children and it never caused me any problems.

There has got to be more to this.
It’s very unusual for SS to be called for a one off incident unless it’s something major.

We have to report injuries or concerns but nothing gets done about them unless multiple concerns have been raised over an extended period of time.

It sounds like many staff have picked up on small things and need to check everything is ok or someone has made an allegation against you to the school and after this small incident they’ve had to look into it.

Oh God this is my worst nightmare. My children's school seem to question every bruise and I think I would struggle not to go full on fish wife if it escalated to this once your husband explained what happened.

Ah just seen your second post. Sounds odd. There must have been other incidents to generate that response.

I am a safeguarding lead in a school and something really doesn't add up here. The threshold for intervention from Children's Services is a lot higher than many people think. I would be extremely surprised if a social worker came out to school to talk to a child based on a one off incident as described by the OP. I have never known anything like it. Honestly, if I made a referral to the MASH for the incident OP has described I would fully expect them to call me and give me a ticking off for wasting their time. It is the sort of thing that we would log on our internal system, have a brief chat with the parent to make sure their story matches the child's version of events and no further action would be taken unless it was part of a pattern of wider, significantly more serious concerns. Even if a referral was accepted the social worker would normally have to contact parents to ask for their consent to visit the child in school, unless the child had made allegations that were very serious and could potentially lead to criminal charges in which case it would be a joint visit with a Police officer and the parent and child would be spoken to separately. None of this makes sense.

I work in a school. I'm sure you would think we frequently "overreact". Under reacting would be far worse though and could have devastating consequences.

For this reason if they have an accident like yours had I would let them know when dropping off. Like oh dd had a fall and bumped her head. Has a small bruise etc. Just shows you are aware of it. They probably also checking in case you say she hurt herself at school they have a note to say it happened outside of school

Just seen your update. Don't talk to your dd about it. Wait for social services to contact you. I don't understand how they decide these things. My SIL son jumped off a swing and it hit him in the back when it swing back and left a bruise. His teacher saw when changing for p.e and reported it. Social services came to school. Took all 4 children to a hospital for a check. She had a few visits etc but was told she's not allowed to discuss it with him. We had to go round and try and help it was really awful. All because he said my mum hit me but she didn't and the other 3 who are older confirmed that he hadn't. Although that isn't the 1st time the school had done something like that with other children. My SIL was distraught. And didn't know what to do. They visited the house a few times and where happy and never came back.

Just co operate if they want to visit let them. When they see all is well they will leave you alone.

[quote Benjispruce5]@marvellousmaple think about it. Do you know the op? Could there have been other incidents? School don’t get social workers in. They report worrying things and social workers are overstretched so don’t turn up at school lightly.[/quote]
There are no other incidents at all - nothing
The whole thing is bizarre and has really upset everyone especially my dd

@mcmooberry

Oh God this is my worst nightmare. My children's school seem to question every bruise and I think I would struggle not to go full on fish wife if it escalated to this once your husband explained what happened.

It is a total nightmare I've taken legal advice this morning

It is a total nightmare I've taken legal advice this morning

For what? SS doing their job?
This is why so many genuine cases of neglect and abuse go unnoticed/ignored/delayed.
Social workers and teachers are human and the fear of parents pursuing legal action against them will make some think again before investigating what could be a serious child abuse case.
You state you have nothing to hide so just it run it's course.

@worriedmum2022 to be honest your reaction makes you all look even more suspicious - they are doing routine investigations after a safe guarding report was made which will likely not go any further - and you’ve sought legal advice?

The way you’re reacting to this makes you look guilty of something. Let it run its course.

Why have you taken legal advice?

Obviously they have concerns and more than just this one incident.

If there’s nothing going on why are you trying so hard to get them to back off?

Surely if you think your child is being harmed or is unhappy in any way you would want them to find out what’s happening ASAP and would be thankful they are taking things so seriously.
Just because you believe your or your DH aren’t harming her doesn’t mean someone else isn’t.

Please don’t question your DD too much. Act like it’s ok and this is normal else she will be worried.
The children who are getting harmed by other people are often told things like their mum will be taken to jail which is why they don’t say anything.

[quote GreenTeaMom]@worriedmum2022 to be honest your reaction makes you all look even more suspicious - they are doing routine investigations after a safe guarding report was made which will likely not go any further - and you’ve sought legal advice?

The way you’re reacting to this makes you look guilty of something. Let it run its course.[/quote]
@GreenTeaMom

I have taken legal advice because my family have been made to feel like criminals and my dd didn't want to go to school today after yesterday's interrogation
We have nothing to hide
But I don't think this is acceptable

I know it seems odd a sw turning up on one incident but it actually could be an area where they are less over stretched than we commonly hear about - social are also locally administered rather than nationally and many reasons could have fed into the sw involvement not just lots of other incidents or them choosing to behave like arses.
I normally always recommend taking legal advice for everything - however, I honestly equally recommend not complaining or acting hastily around social whether under a reasonable legal cause or not, at least until after this is resolved - they sometimes deem it ‘suspicious’ - their baseline for ‘facts’ is balance of probabilities, not beyond reasonable doubt, so everything can stack up on one side to be ‘likely’ and to ‘show’. I’m not saying they search out to ‘convict’ on every little thing but they do expect compliance and understanding of their role - rightly or not 🤷🏼‍♀️

I’d be interested to know what the legal advice was in response to a routine social work enquiry. It’s hardly an interrogation to speak to a child about their home life when a parent has caused an injury, albeit a minor one. I had a similar situation last year, the social worker spoke to my child and to me and the enquiry was closed - no harm done. I’m a CP social worker, I completely understood why they needed to speak to her and explained to my DD what would happen and why. I really don’t see why it’s a problem given you have nothing to hide.

@worriedmum2022 firstly - you’re not being made to feel like criminals, it is standard practice to report things that have been said to them - especially since it came from the child and not the parent first. If my child has an injury - however big or small - I mention it to her school that morning, not because it’s been caused by anyone in my case, but just incase it bothers her throughout the day etc.

Secondly - I understand your child might be upset by the questioning, but seriously I doubt it was the interrogation you describe. They have to work incredibly carefully with children, and are not allowed to be leading in anyway. In all honesty, it was more of just a chit chat with how things are at home more than this scary encounter you are describing.

Seriously - just co-operate with them if you really have nothing to hide or don’t feel you have anything to worry about - it’ll make your life a lot easier than trying to fight them on this when they aren’t even taking action at the moment. If you try and throw them off too much by acting the way you are, they might feel the need to get involved just based on your reaction and if there is anything else going on.

I know you must be worried, SS is always seen as parent’s worst nightmare, but co-operating with them in these circumstances is probably going to be better than going off at them.