To ask my parents about their money?

[parentsfuture]

You often read about the “bank of mum and dad”, but that’s something I’ve never been fortunate to experience. Unlike all of my friends (as far as I am aware), they’ve never been able to financially support me. I’ve had jobs since I was 15, and if I wanted or needed anything I had to pay for it myself as my parents simply couldn’t afford to. I had to pay for my piano lessons myself in the last few years as they struggled. (They did provide food and I didn’t have to pay rent though). I moved out when I turned 19 to go to university. From time to time I’d have to give them money, nothing huge just £5-£20 every now and again, but still a lot for a teenager in school. Absolutely nothing wrong with the above, just giving background.

In my late teens my parents nearly lost our home by defaulting on mortgage payments. My parents worked, but my dad was made redundant and was only able to pick up jobs every now and again. I have two younger siblings who were in school at this time. I’m 30 now, so this was all around the crash in between 07-09. In the end they managed to sell our house and downsize to smaller home in cash over an hour away from where we live.

They do work but on very low incomes - I don’t know if it’s this or just that they just seem to be awful with money management, or both. One of my grandparents regularly gives them money every month - they are a pensioner themselves. And there have been times I’ve had to help them out with money too.

I struggle to understand where the money goes if they don’t have a mortgage or children to look after. It’s definitely not gambling, they don’t drink or smoke. I know they must send money to family abroad from time to time, but I can’t imagine it being such a huge amount that they’d continue to struggle themselves and put my grandparent under pressure with?

I’m worried about their future, their pensions (if they even have any, I imagine it will be state only) and just what their expectations are. They are now 60 so still a few years away from being able to claim their pensions.

My mum mentions how she wants to retire soon but I don’t think there has been any detailed thought process around this. I have my own family to support and look after too, and my siblings also are not great with their money. I am starting to worry theres going to be an expectation of me as the eldest and “naturally responsible” child that I will be something they can continue to fall back on and be there to help them always. Of course if they ever needed real help I would, but I can’t do this always.

AIBU to sit them down and ask them about their finances and what their plans are for the future as a concerned child? I feel awful for my grandparent who only gets a state pension but is giving them a significant amount of this every month as they also worry! Or is it none of my business and should I just leave it until they ask for more money again?

AIBU = none of your business
AINBU = try and have a chat if concerned

Thanks for all your comments definitely food for thought.

Tbh I am more just keen that they stop asking my grandparent for money as it’s not nice for them to be worrying about them in old age. So keen to find out why they need it and how to reduce their expenditure if needed. I am not worried about my own finances as I am secure in our own planning and have good incomes.

I will add that my parents don’t ask me for money these days, or if they have they have paid back fairly promptly, it’s maybe been more of a cash flow prior to payday but my concern is the reliance on my grandparent as I don’t believe that’s paid back.

The fact that they have asked you for money in the past (and sounds like they still do occasionally) makes it your business.

Also, when your grandparent dies, they will lose the support that is being given there, how are they going to make up the difference?

It would be totally reasonable of you to talk it through with them. Maybe next time they mention money or wanting to retire, you could use that as an opportunity to broach the subject.

I'd tread carefully op.
All their lives MIL and PIL lived as though they were in poverty and spent nothing. The house was 40 years dated, their children remembered being hungry and hiding the school trip letters, they even had to share a bloody cornet between three of them on holiday.

When their electric heating was condemned and the quote was £25k - everything had to be replaced wiring, CH, etc, SIL called a family conference to see how it would be paid for. ILs grudgingly said they could cover it.

MIL didn't travel to be with her father before her mother's funeral because it would have meant paying full price rather than Apex.

The lost of deprivations goes on.

When FIL died, there was over a million in the bank - and their children remembered being hungry.

So be cautious OP - they might not be as hard up as you think.

I had a few friends of SE Asian origin through work and they grew up in what would be deemed as severe poverty because most of the money went 'back home'. Is it possible that is what's happening?

@RosesAndHellebores

I'd tread carefully op. All their lives MIL and PIL lived as though they were in poverty and spent nothing. The house was 40 years dated, their children remembered being hungry and hiding the school trip letters, they even had to share a bloody cornet between three of them on holiday.

When their electric heating was condemned and the quote was £25k - everything had to be replaced wiring, CH, etc, SIL called a family conference to see how it would be paid for. ILs grudgingly said they could cover it.

MIL didn't travel to be with her father before her mother's funeral because it would have meant paying full price rather than Apex.

The lost of deprivations goes on.

When FIL died, there was over a million in the bank - and their children remembered being hungry.

So be cautious OP - they might not be as hard up as you think.

I was thinking this.

They have two income and no mortgage. Even on low incomes, they shouldn't need to rely on handouts. They may be squirreling away a secret fortune.

Or they might be frittering it. Do you see any evidence of over-spending?

@RosesAndHellebores

I'd tread carefully op. All their lives MIL and PIL lived as though they were in poverty and spent nothing. The house was 40 years dated, their children remembered being hungry and hiding the school trip letters, they even had to share a bloody cornet between three of them on holiday.

When their electric heating was condemned and the quote was £25k - everything had to be replaced wiring, CH, etc, SIL called a family conference to see how it would be paid for. ILs grudgingly said they could cover it.

MIL didn't travel to be with her father before her mother's funeral because it would have meant paying full price rather than Apex.

The lost of deprivations goes on.

When FIL died, there was over a million in the bank - and their children remembered being hungry.

So be cautious OP - they might not be as hard up as you think.

This is an awful situation. I can hand on heart say that this is definitely not the case though - I remember debt collectors coming to our house to try and take them to court for not paying the mortgage.

They are definitely not squirrelling money away. I think they are just don’t plan what will be coming in and out each month, so when an unexpected bill comes in when the car brakes down, washing machine needs replaced, etc etc then it just carries over to the next month.

Hi OP - it sounds like we have a similar cultural background/values potentially, as some of what you mention about sending money "back home" for family or "to build" resonates.

I'm not sure if this is relevant, but are your parents particularly religious? Some people in certain communities become quite embroiled in providing tithes at church and at the pastor's behest, which is often bare-faced exploitation as far as I'm concerned.

Jeepers the ageism on this thread stinks. They must be squandering it, money always trickles down generations, bet they're squirrelled it away and have mega savings. Despite OP making it clear pretty much straight off that it's not the case
If this was OP there'd be a chorus of "why don't those greedy boomers give you money', with no consideration of having enough to meet old age costs.
Many older people are poor and have been poor all their lives, and however much time they had to prepare they still couldn't amass a huge pension pot. Why is it that gaed to accept?
Ageism, that's why. Just because some MN parents were well off does not mean they all are.

I don't assume all boomers are wealthy. My parents are boomers and have never been well off. They're WC, and I have had to help them out from time to time.

However, the situation here doesn't stack up. With two incomes and no mortgage, even if the incomes are low, they shouldn't need to be given money by the grandparent every month.

Their money is going somewhere, probably to family overseas. They are going to need to rein that in, because it's not sustainable and they can't afford it.

@seekinglondonlife

I had a few friends of SE Asian origin through work and they grew up in what would be deemed as severe poverty because most of the money went 'back home'. Is it possible that is what's happening?

Only one of my parents is from another country but growing they would have only sent money back on very rare occasions as simply couldn’t afford to. One of my uncles would have taken care of the wider family in this way, but have since retired so not able to help as much.

Nowadays my parents do help when they can because my uncle can’t help but it’s small amounts every now and again in case of emergencies. I help too on these occasions so it’s rare - but talking when there are serious health issues etc. There’s no proper state support, or if you do need help you basically need to keep paying an equivalent of national insurance (even if you’re in your 70s/80s/90s etc with no income. If you live in poverty and no formal work around, it makes it very difficult to have built up savings to look after yourself in old age there. Often one or two family members look after everyone else if the family’s resources have gone into their education etc. So of course i try to help when we can too - we are so lucky here with benefits support, NHS etc.

A third, yes that's right, a THIRD, of black and Asian pensioners live below the poverty line.
Fact

@TheBermudaTriangle

Hi OP - it sounds like we have a similar cultural background/values potentially, as some of what you mention about sending money "back home" for family or "to build" resonates.

I'm not sure if this is relevant, but are your parents particularly religious? Some people in certain communities become quite embroiled in providing tithes at church and at the pastor's behest, which is often bare-faced exploitation as far as I'm concerned.

My parents do have a faith which I also share, but there’s no emphasis on tithing or giving to that point of exploitation. If anything they are more giving of their time to people and volunteering when they can as what they can do.

There’s nothing wrong with asking about when they think they are going to retire and whether or not they can manage financially. Being low earners, probably means they just don’t have any spare cash each month. I am 60 but won’t get state pension until I am 67, my DH is 64 and will be getting his state pension at 66.

wow - sounds weird reading about something as if ancient history, then realising 2008 crash - that's just me being old.

House large enough to sell and downsize mortgage free when if you were a mid-teenager the mortgage was probably only 15 years in, several children and private music lessons? Sounds like they've either always lived beyond their means, or not really adjusted to low income and periods of unemployment.
If your uncertain about what money is going on now, could they have remortgaged at some point? If that's the case, with poor mortgage history behind them they may not have got a great rate.

'Your plans to retire sound nice, I am glad you have done all of the financial planning around your pensions and you can manage into very old age. I don't think anyone will be able to assist you financially though, so please bear that in mind'

And leave it. Do not mention it again, and you are going to need cast iron boundaries to never ever bail them out op. Make it clear you will not be doing so at any point, and then leave them to it. This is not your responsibility or concern. I would be distance myself from the whole subject, and stay neutral if they talk about it.

House large enough to sell and downsize mortgage free when if you were a mid-teenager the mortgage was probably only 15 years in, several children and private music lessons? Sounds like they've either always lived beyond their means, or not really adjusted to low income and periods of unemployment.

Exactly.

My parents have always been low income, and did not have these things. Poor people generally can't realise much/any capital by downsizing because either they rent or, if they own, the house is a very small one already.

I believe you feel burdened by maybe a cultural expectation to look after the elders into old age? Is there an expectation of this? Because this will need addressing op, if you have other priorities and commitments.

Are they letting you know now is the time they expect you to start stepping up and looking after them?

@ThinWomansBrain

wow - sounds weird reading about something as if ancient history, then realising 2008 crash - that's just me being old.

House large enough to sell and downsize mortgage free when if you were a mid-teenager the mortgage was probably only 15 years in, several children and private music lessons? Sounds like they've either always lived beyond their means, or not really adjusted to low income and periods of unemployment.
If your uncertain about what money is going on now, could they have remortgaged at some point? If that's the case, with poor mortgage history behind them they may not have got a great rate.

Yes I think there’s definitelt been an element of living beyond their means growing up when wanting to give us music lessons etc at the time it could be afforded but then after the crash, not so much but I paid myself as I wanted to finish them.

The house wasnt large - typical semi and we are in one of the cheapest parts of the U.K. to live. They sold the house and when I say bought another house in cash, they bought a small place in the countryside in the middle of nowhere over an hour away from family, and paid probably a significant amount less than what some peoples salary would be even for a year - they did this as they knew they would not be given a mortgage based on the history.

@Keepyourheadscrewedon

I believe you feel burdened by maybe a cultural expectation to look after the elders into old age? Is there an expectation of this? Because this will need addressing op, if you have other priorities and commitments.

Are they letting you know now is the time they expect you to start stepping up and looking after them?

They have never once mentioned us looking after them financially in old age in all fairness. My concern is more that they just haven’t thought it through so then I’ll end up having to! I’ll need to just bring it up casually the next time it comes up in conversation - though I know they’ll confirm that they don’t expect it, just fear in the back of their minds they’ll know I’ll be there to help if that makes sense?

My dad is from the U.K. and we very much grew up with a U.K. culture, but I guess there’s part of that ingrained in most people that you always want to make sure your family are ok.

YANBU. Pensions and retirement are important and if they are struggling on their current income then it's unlikely their pension income is going to be that high.
If you are going to be the one who has to take responsibility for them then you should know their situation so that you can make plans for them and yourself. If they currently rely on an elderly relatives pension contribution to keep afloat then this income stream is not going to last forever.
It would be good if they opened up their finances up to you so you could help them budget, perhaps cut costs by changing suppliers etc.
I they expect your support then they should be open and honest with you to start off with.

just fear in the back of their minds they’ll know I’ll be there to help if that makes sense?

Well then be very clear you can't and won't be a financial backstop. It is beyond me why any parent would expect that from their child, life is hard enough without the added strain of supporting two extra people.

You seem to doubt your own ability to 'not help' op. It is not ingrained in me that I have to help my family financially, not at all, I expect them to be responsible adults and take care of themselves which is probably why it would never happen, they make good decisions for themselves as independent adults.

You have to be crystal clear, if you retire and run into money problems I will not be able to help. As clear as day. And stick to it.

I maybe need to chat with them to see if they have been supporting my siblings (I have 2) the last couple of years. They are both studying but also working and nearly full time hours to support themselves, but they could be struggling too and parents trying to help. Though one of them isn’t great with money management either. Messy!

Keep out of it and don't give them anything. They've had years to sort their affairs. If they're giving money away to someone else then more fool them.

@Keepyourheadscrewedon

just fear in the back of their minds they’ll know I’ll be there to help if that makes sense?

Well then be very clear you can't and won't be a financial backstop. It is beyond me why any parent would expect that from their child, life is hard enough without the added strain of supporting two extra people.

You seem to doubt your own ability to 'not help' op. It is not ingrained in me that I have to help my family financially, not at all, I expect them to be responsible adults and take care of themselves which is probably why it would never happen, they make good decisions for themselves as independent adults.

You have to be crystal clear, if you retire and run into money problems I will not be able to help. As clear as day. And stick to it.

I did say they have never expressed an expectation that we look after them financially in old age. I wouldn’t expect that of my children either.

But you’re right in that it’s probably more “me” than them, and part of my cultural upbringing to help others is factoring into that, especially because as you say “life is hard”.

Stay out of it.

Let them know you won't be able to help at any point in the future.
Then it is their choice, and they live with the consequences if they choose to stop working. They are not going to starve, so just stop getting involved. By getting involved you start to become part of the decision making and by default the solution.

' I am sure you know what you are doing. I won't be able to help financially now or in the future. Please factor that into your decisions for the future' End of.

The fact you are even thinking they will ask/expect you to step up shows a very disordered family dynamic. They should be looking out and caring for you op! Not the other way around.