Is outstanding always outstanding?

[Ann51abc]

My child’s primary is classed as outstanding. This is in London, quite a affluent area just for context. I do not feel, after sending my child for 4 years it is very outstanding. I kept this to myself as I didn’t want to be too negative and picky but recently found out lots of parents feel the same!

So my question is if your school is outstanding what actually makes it outstanding? I suppose recent headings would count as I know a few in the area who last had an inspection 10+ years ago.

The issues I feel in my child’s school are: no communication at all, this year been told she was assessed wrong last year (by a teacher) so she’s actually very weak in a few areas, nothing has been done to catch her up even when I’ve requested - I’ve been told the school don’t have the capacity to do this. Other parents have hired tutors so I suppose this is the only help my child will get so I also need to do. Not important factor I suppose but the receptionist that works there is so rude! Trying to get any information from her regarding anything is always met with huffing and puffing

I know I’ve made typos such as a affluent instead of an affluent! Please ignore the numerous errors as typing on my phone

As a teacher, I'd probably rather send my child to a good school than am outstanding one. What Ofsted look for and what parents look for are not necessarily the same. Many of the old Ofsted ratings were based largely on data so if KS2 results were good (at whatever cost) then the school could achieve an Outstanding rating. When was it last inspected out of interest? Many outstanding schools are long overdue inspections.

There is a school near me that is outstanding,but last had Ofsted in 2012 so who knows
The high school my nephew's went to and incidentally my old high school was rated outstanding in 2011,it had an Ofsted inspection a couple of years ago and was put into special measures ,and had apparently been in decline for a number of years but on paper it was outstanding .

Another teacher here, I'd choose a rectory graded good school over outstanding too as they're often striving to achieve outstanding. Outstanding schools could have been inspected many years ago under previous framework. They can keep their outstanding status even with a change in head/lots of staff/curriculum design etc.

*recently graded good

My dd's school is ranked outstanding but hasn't been inspected in about 15 years. The goal posts have changed many times since then.

In general, ofsted is of no use to you if you want to know anything about the operating of a school (outside of the address, pupil numbers etc). It won't tell you how well your child will do there, what they'll do if your child has issues there or how they will interact with you.

Ofsted reports have only a tenuous grasp on day to day reality.

I'm generally as suspicious of outstanding schools as I am of requires improvement since I've seen too many heads that chase 'outstanding' with very poor attitudes towards staff, parents and pupils.

In short, visiting a school and asking other parents of their experiences is vastly superior to an ofsted rating.

I worked in an 'Outstanding' school.

You couldn't have paid me to send my child there.

@Ann51abc

My child’s primary is classed as outstanding. This is in London, quite a affluent area just for context. I do not feel, after sending my child for 4 years it is very outstanding. I kept this to myself as I didn’t want to be too negative and picky but recently found out lots of parents feel the same!

So my question is if your school is outstanding what actually makes it outstanding? I suppose recent headings would count as I know a few in the area who last had an inspection 10+ years ago.

The issues I feel in my child’s school are: no communication at all, this year been told she was assessed wrong last year (by a teacher) so she’s actually very weak in a few areas, nothing has been done to catch her up even when I’ve requested - I’ve been told the school don’t have the capacity to do this. Other parents have hired tutors so I suppose this is the only help my child will get so I also need to do. Not important factor I suppose but the receptionist that works there is so rude! Trying to get any information from her regarding anything is always met with huffing and puffing

The Ofsted rating is mostly a measure of the socio-economic background of the students.

I teach in an outstanding school.

It really was pretty good 9 years ago when it was last Ofsteded. Today it would fail.

@WlNDMlLL

As a teacher, I'd probably rather send my child to a good school than am outstanding one. What Ofsted look for and what parents look for are not necessarily the same. Many of the old Ofsted ratings were based largely on data so if KS2 results were good (at whatever cost) then the school could achieve an Outstanding rating. When was it last inspected out of interest? Many outstanding schools are long overdue inspections.

Definitely this.

I am a school governor - as long as you have a head who can tick all the boxes then you will get outstanding. The boxes that need ticking have nothing to do with your child's well-being - they are just statistics that the government can use to say that they are doing something about education.

Our school is Good - this is because we insist that we only do the minimum of box ticking and that the staff spend as much time as possible enriching the children's lives.

But still the poor Head is sending me emails at 2 in the morning - he should be asleep not messing with figures.

The Ofsted rating is mostly a measure of the socio-economic background of the students I also agree with this, and additionally it can be how you cook the books. Infant schools are something like 7 times more likely to be graded outstanding than junior schools. That shows there is something very wrong with the system.

My child’s school was rated that it needs improvement. I’m really happy with her there and she loves going in and loves her teachers. I sent her there as it’s literally on our door step, she can read, write and do her maths at the level shes expected, so I’m chuffed.

My DDs school is rated outstanding and DSs previous school was rated requires improvement not long after.

The behaviour at DDs school is much better, the staff turn over is lower. Progress was checked frequently so the teachers had plenty of data to show progress.

DS left at the end of year 8 but we received his year 9 timetable, he had multiple teachers for many subjects including 4 for English and 3 for Maths. DSs books were rarely checked and his teachers were not properly aware of the difficulties he was facing with getting his thoughts on paper. There appeared to be a significant number of children with mental health difficulties, more so than in DDs school. The communication appears good on the surface- a weekly newsletter, regular Facebook/Twitter/Instagram updates. Whereas DDs school just communicate what is necessary, the general atmosphere of the school, reputation and results speak for themselves they don’t need to push themselves on social media.

The primary school they went to was rated outstanding but hasn’t been inspected for over 10 years and towards the end of my children time there it didn’t feel like it deserved to be rated outstanding anymore.

@Pinkflipflop85

I worked in an 'Outstanding' school.

You couldn't have paid me to send my child there.

Could you share the things you felt weren’t what you expected of outstanding?

As a teacher, I'd probably rather send my child to a good school than am outstanding one. What Ofsted look for and what parents look for are not necessarily the same.

Adding to all the comments above about actively choosing an Ofsted ‘good’ school over an ‘outstanding’ one. Former primary teacher here and we have done this with DD, who starts Reception in September. In my experience outstanding largely means ‘good at paperwork, jumping through hoops and parroting Ofsted’s latest buzzwords’. It does not necessarily mean that schools are focused on pupil wellbeing, or delivering a broad and balanced curriculum. And most of the staff I know who work in outstanding schools are burnt out and disillusioned with teaching.

In my area it’s quite striking that the vast majority of the schools that have recently been judged outstanding are either academies or free schools that closely track the government’s current priorities (super-strict ethos; laser focus on key skills like phonics etc). It seems to be nigh on impossible to achieve an outstanding rating as a plain old community primary.

My DDs school is outstanding, inspected 2 years ago when it moved up from good. What I like about the school:

• I believe in their teaching methods. They have regular parent meetings e.g. about how they teach maths or phonics and why (backed up with data). I'm not a teacher but have read quite a lot and trust they are doing a decent job.
• They put the children first. Little things that makes them happy e.g. a writing area with sparkly gel pens they can use at lunch, fun Fridays after COVID where they can wear odd socks etc
• Good communication. I can email the class teacher directly or the office and usually get a reply within a few hours. (I don't email much!)
• I rate the head. She has been there a good while. She seems to support her teachers and works hard to get to know the children e.g. the senior staff were on the entrance gates throughout the COVID period to welcome the children.

Things aren't perfect of course. But it is still a state school with 30 kids in a class, SEN, limited funding etc.

FWIW The school has a mixed demographic economically, not the most deprived but not the most affluent either. At the same time the other school right nearby that is favoured by the middle classes in the area moved from Outstanding to Good. They will probably seesaw back in the future.

Having worked in an outstanding school and a good school, I feel the difference is the level of gloss and ability to keep good records. The atmosphere in my good school is really special and conducive to learning. All the kids and parents and really happy. In the outstanding school everything had to be evidenced perfectly (it's a good thing), the kids were reasonably happy but I don't think they were any better off educationally and the teachers were always bickering.

I chose a "good" over and "outstanding" too

Not to be contrarian, but I liked it more, had a more relaxed feel, and seemed to treat the kids more as individuals rather than products that have to come out with certain grades.

Visiting schools is the best way to get a feel for a place, IMO, and a chat with teacher/HT

Ofsted to be taken with grain of salt

Tbh all school rating stuff fades away in reality when you realise that a) the schools objectives aren't necessarily aligned with yours as a parent, especially if your child is either end of the ability spectrum b) the governments aims almost definitely aren't and they are what drives Ofsted targets etc.

We are just moving our child from an "outstanding" school to a "good" school. We have not been impressed at all, and if they were inspected tomorrow I think they would fail badly. New headteacher has fucked it all up.

We chose a good school 2 miles away over an outstanding school half a mile away. It just seemed far more holistic and child centred, whereas I really didn't take to the head at the outstanding school, she seemed really inflexible and results focused. 5 years on we're still really happy with that choice.

I was a school governor for 5+ years. Our school went from being outstanding - and almost the poster example of what schools should look like - to being put in special measures.

The OFTSED inspections change their criteria regularly to follow current government priorities. In many ways it doesn't reflect the things which are meaningful about a school.

Our school had a particularly high % of SEN pupils, and we had many children come to us after they'd been expelled/failed elsewhere. The amount of money and support that was poured into supporting these kids was amazing. Way, way beyond the statutory requirements. And I also speak as a parent with SEN DC who benefitted from this approach. The OFTSED report talked about the kindness and great community spirit of the school, and said that the way the pupils treated each other was exceptional. Our SEN kids weren't excluded from party invitations etc, it was a lovely place for children to learn about inclusion and acceptance. The OFTSED report said lots of very positive things about the school - but still put us in special measures. And it wasn't all just fluffy stuff either - our Phonics programme was acknowledged as being outstanding.

There absolutely were things which could be improved, and it no longer warranted an Outstanding. But the special measures judgement was rubbish - and we spent two years jumping through hoops to produce metrics to show that the school was competent. We did it, but the methods changed and it wasn't such a friendly, warm place for teachers or the pupils - and I can't say that it made much difference to the learning. Stats, stats and more stats, with even more red tape and pressure for the teachers and pupils alike. Rubbish.

The current way schools are inspected is awful and blows hot and cold with the latest government trends. It doesn't help the teachers deliver what they're trained to do, and it's not conducive to creating a warm, creative space for children to learn in the best way possible.

I have been in a LOT of schools over the past 2 years with my job. I am parent of two autistic children.

Unless your child is the perfectly round peg ready to fit in the hole I would avoid ofsted outstanding schools like the plague. As someone else said, what ofsted view as outstanding really aren't what parents want or look for.

I also think it's worth considering what your child needs.

So, for example, my DS in particular needed a SEN setting and eventually a SEN school. We had to go through the rigmarole of trying and failing at mainstream to get the LA to agree.

My DD - also SEN but capable in the right mainstream - needs time, support and extra help. A school that is tightly focussed on rapid progression and getting the highest possible scores wouldn't give her what she needs. Other schools which were deemed to be outstanding according to the OFTSED priorities would have been a disaster for my DD - she wouldn't have been able to cope.

Not every child needs the same kind of learning environment - and that's a concept that OFTSED and the government don't quite seem to grasp. The quest for homogenised, identical schools which tick boxes but only work if your child fits neatly into the box is so depressing.

My DCs school is rated Good and I am amazed and constantly surprised at how great they are - the individual care, the knowledge they have of each of my children, the detail and awareness of their individual needs, the heartwarming care I see from them. I’m amazed they are not ranked Outatanding and I’m very relieved I didn’t get too hung up on it becisee I did have the option to send DC to a different catchment primary. I visited both at the time, and this school just left me feeling more settled after the visit so I went with them. Best decision ever.

Im slightly obsessing now abiut secondary and getting/remaining in catchment for the feeder secondary school, which happens to be Outstanding, so it is very popular. I just hope our luck remains.