Is outstanding always outstanding?

[Ann51abc]

My child’s primary is classed as outstanding. This is in London, quite a affluent area just for context. I do not feel, after sending my child for 4 years it is very outstanding. I kept this to myself as I didn’t want to be too negative and picky but recently found out lots of parents feel the same!

So my question is if your school is outstanding what actually makes it outstanding? I suppose recent headings would count as I know a few in the area who last had an inspection 10+ years ago.

The issues I feel in my child’s school are: no communication at all, this year been told she was assessed wrong last year (by a teacher) so she’s actually very weak in a few areas, nothing has been done to catch her up even when I’ve requested - I’ve been told the school don’t have the capacity to do this. Other parents have hired tutors so I suppose this is the only help my child will get so I also need to do. Not important factor I suppose but the receptionist that works there is so rude! Trying to get any information from her regarding anything is always met with huffing and puffing

My 2 dc's are at a (inspected in the last couple years) outstanding primary school, it's the one in our catchment and has one of the best reputations in the area. (A large city, not London).

Things I can note:
•excellent communication from the school
•teachers have all in themselves been wonderful and any problems have been quickly dealt with
•school atmosphere is lovely
•covid home schooling was good with everyday zoom lessons (even for 4 year old at the time)

But we're in a city, space is limited, pe is often forgotten about, I recently spent some time in the class room and was surprised, in a negative way. We are now looking at local private schools to move our children to.

If your child is behind, the school should be addressing it. Every school should have a Covid 19 policy up on their website which will outline how those effected more than averagely by lockdowns, will have their needs met. This means that they should have had more sessions e g with tutors (in school) to get them up to speed. It is like a catch up grant. Did your school do that?
Arrange to meet with the Head/ senco too to get these academic issues your dc has addressed.
Sooner rather than later.
Lots of outstanding schools are not so great as PPs have said .
Otherwise get a tutor- assuming you can afford one.

I recently moved my son from an outstanding (my arse) school in Y5. The ofsted is older than my child and not worth the paper its written on. His new "good" school ia in my opinion outstanding in comparison.

Ofsted reports aren't worth the paper they're written on.

I've been a teacher for a decade.

I've worked in three 'outstanding' schools.

Every single one had psychotic headteachers, terrible staff morale and huge turnover, and students being worked into the ground to crank out the required exam results, with no thought for their wellbeing.

All of these schools were excellent at social media self promotion, paying lip service to the latest educational trends, and data gathering.

Ofsted don't care about the experience the students are getting, or what the working environment is like for teachers. They spend very little time in classrooms. They interview teachers and students, but most are too terrified of the consequences if they tell the truth, so the whole teacher and pupil voice thing is mere window dressing. It's impossible for them to meaningfully experience what a school is like to learn or teach in during their visits - they spend most of their time locked in meetings with SLT anyway - and this is why Ofsted judgements are based almost solely on paperwork. If you tick the boxes, you get your outstanding, even if teachers are leaving in droves and half the students are on the waiting list for CAMHS.

Unfortunately the psychotic heads are the ones who are very good at charming Ofsted inspectors. They also frequently tend to be Ofsted inspectors themselves.

Honestly, pay Ofsted inspections no mind. Go and visit the school and find out for yourself what it's really like. Personally for my kids I'd never want them setting foot in an Outstanding school, because I know it'll have overpromoted, underqualified and egotistical SLT who parrot the latest edutwitter bollocks, forcing the teachers to jump through pointless hoops to fit in with whatever is trendy in pedagogy today, alongside putting kids through endless assessments to 'close the gap' - these schools all have three year KS4 too, because obviously spending two years on rote learning to pass your GCSEs isn't enough to secure that top of the league table position - and there will be no room for creativity, joy or fun.

My teacher friends with more experience than me always say a satisfactory school (funny that they changed satisfactory to requires improvement a few years ago - because satisfactory isn't good enough! It's all very Orwellian!) is a happy school and I'd be inclined to agree.

I can’t stress enough how much data is relied upon to form these judgements. I worked at a secondary that got a requires improvement judgment, and the decision had really been made even before they walked through the doors. We moved to good within a year, again based largely on a new, much improved set of results, although there were also some changes in leadership and some effective new initiatives.

My children also used to attend a nursery that, at the time, was graded outstanding. The wait list was a mile long. It has now been graded inadequate due to safeguarding issues involving choking hazards and children being able to access hot drinks. An Ofsted visit only captures a moment in time, so you need think much more about how well the school fits your child, rather than the label it boasts about.

Ofsted are a waste of space! They come with an agenda and aren’t happy until they’ve trashed a good school!
Ask to speak to a member of the Senior Management team if you have issues.

www.tes.com/magazine/news/secondary/strike-hit-private-school-group-offers-pension-scheme-extension there seems to be some movement.

Sorry, wrong thread!

You seem to be making the mistake of assuming that words in Ofsted reports (or any other government/quango reports) mean the same as they do in English.

Ofsted will have a list of tick-boxes that have to be ticked to qualify for each grade. A school rated as "outstanding" has ticked the required boxes for that rating. In the 21st century, a head teacher's job is to get those boxes ticked. A rating of "outstanding" doesn't necessarily mean the school is any good. Similarly, a "requires improvement" rating doesn't necessarily mean the school is bad.

I've seen all this in the absurd Teaching Excellence Framework for universities, which has nothing to do with teaching or excellence (and isn't a framework).

The words used for inspections are an example of inflated language, which is not only found in the ratings of schools.

When was it last inspected?
I've seen a number of local headlines about schools being inspected recently and going from outsianding to l to inadequate.
They've normally been inspected about 15 years ago.
It also was easier to get outstanding back then

My DD went to an outstanding primary school. I ended up taking her out and putting her in a good school. The headteacher of the outstanding one was only concerned about appearances and grades. The new school head wasn't really interested in those and was totally focused on the happiness and inclusion of all the children. You could feel the difference in atmosphere when you were there.

We had the choice between a good and an outstanding school and we’ve chosen the good one. This was based on feedback from parent friends and just the feel of the school when visiting and their attitude towards the parents and children. The local outstanding school hasn’t been inspected for many years and has doubled in size in that time so it is very different to what it was. The good one is becoming very popular and I’m a bit worried we won’t get DD in!

There's lots of schools being inspected now that have been exempt from inspection because they got outstanding ten+ years ago and are now getting requires improvement. That's partly due to a different inspection framework but also because the relevance of an Ofsted grade awarded a decade ago to a school now is basically zero.

Ofsted has changed.
Ofsted has changed
Ofsted has changed
They don't even look at data anymore when they visit.
They do look at whether staff understand what they want to teach, how they want to teach it and how they'll check that kids are learning.
A recently inspected school that got outstanding? I'd send my kids there like a shot.

My children go to a school that’s rated good. I could have fought to get them into a faith school which is very close to our house and is rated outstanding, and I believe we’d have had a good chance of getting them in, but we loved the feel of the good school when we visited and decided to put that down as 1st choice. Our instincts have proven to be correct, our children benefit from brilliant teachers who really care about them. It’s not an outstanding school but from a parents perspective I can’t see how it could be any better.

There is a primary school near me rayed as outstanding which haant had an ofsted since 2008....

It's always amazed me how much many parents are guided by the Ofsted rating. It can give an indicator of the school but nothing beats visiting and talking to people.

For me, the headteacher and SLT are everything about a school. Try and meet the head if you can. I worked for an outstanding primary in London for five years. They really were and are outstanding because the two heads (large school) are fantastic - approachable, open, hands on, supportive... Every morning they are at the school gates to get children (unless pre-arranged meeting). Every morning they visit each class to say good morning. Compare that to another school I worked in where you didn't see the head sometimes all day, shut up in their office doing paperwork - supposedly good but as a teacher it was an horrendous place to work.

My children’s school is a “good” school. Recently inspected and maintained its previous good rating.
In my opinion it’s an outstanding school - we all just love it - never had any complaints. I’m also a teacher so have always known what to look out for. I’d worry that official outstanding schools become complacent (many around this area have done).

I was a School Governor when the school went through Ofsted. They narrowly missed out on Outstanding overall. The teaching and opportunities etc were all considered amazing.. indeed to Early Years section was rated Outstanding. But the admin was a bit off and their communication with the parents sometimes fell short... which the school was working on and the parents agreed it was improving. The general thought with the parents was the headteacher was a bit weak (the deputy was amazing). It was interesting seeing something from that side.

Generally,as a parent I ignore any rating older than a couple of years. Always look at the date when taking something into account.

I've been really sceptical since our awesome nursery slipped into 'improvement needed' from outstanding. The report sounded damning when you read it. But turned out the following:
'Nursery do not have adequate procedures in place to ensure the safety of children' = my very accident-prone no fear DD had one too many accidents in the playground which should have triggered a further risk assessment. The children were perfectly safe.
'Staff have no awareness of basic hygiene' = The automatic taps in the bathroom stopped working on the day of the inspection so the staff used a bowl of soapy water and flannels to clean the children's hands instead.
'Children are not properly safeguarded' = The staff interviewed did not know the exact procedure for reporting religious radicalisation within their setting - 'report it to my manager' not sufficient apparently. But FFS religious radicalisation among 3 and 4 year olds?!
I would be very sceptical of Ofsted ratings on that basis.
Both DDs LOVED their nursery. They were so happy there and so well looked after. Anything else at that age is irrelevant IMHO.

Outstanding means the school know how to tick the right boxes and put the right pupils on show.

I'm not sure it would be possible for a school to be outstanding to all its pupils because needs differ.

*"I am a school governor - as long as you have a head who can tick all the boxes then you will get outstanding. The boxes that need ticking have nothing to do with your child's well-being - they are just statistics that the government can use to say that they are doing something about education.

Our school is Good - this is because we insist that we only do the minimum of box ticking and that the staff spend as much time as possible enriching the children's lives.

But still the poor Head is sending me emails at 2 in the morning - he should be asleep not messing with figures."*

Absolute rubbish. If it was only that easy... If you really are a school governor maybe update yourself with the current inspection criteria.

The thing about Outstanding schools is that they are judged to be that on the day, drawing on various sources of evidence. The situation can change quite rapidly, so if a school hasn't had an inspection for several years who knows what judgement they would get now? (The HT will have a good idea and hopefully so will the governors).

I worked in an outstanding school. Outstanding my arse. I worked in a failing school and that was the one I would have chosen. Staff were amazing with a great pastoral team. They didn't stage things for inspections

Absolutely not, there was an outstanding primary in the news recently that has just been placed in special measures.