To ask about WISC V?

[Justrealised]

Posting here for traffic, hoping there is an ep, cp or really knowledgeable parent that can help.

My son had the WISC V. FSIQ 22. Although the EP didn't officially give us the score (it was on the bottom of the table). We were told that the FSIQ couldn't be calculated due to the difference in scores. Lowest was 0.1 highest 9th percentile. Can anyone explain how someone would calculate the FSIQ please, is it just the first column added together please? Are the scores so low that the FSIQ is irrelevant?

Hi OP. Just another parent here but I wish these psychology reports were written in plainer English so we didn’t have to try and translate their actual meaning!

For our cognitive report the FSIQ could not be calculated because there was too big a range between the other various scores achieved. We were told that this can often happen.

Hope someone can come along with some more clinical experience of scoring this assessment to explain it further to you.

@Porkydorky thank you for replying. I agree they're so hard to pull apart especially seeing some of the scores in black and white and having to decipher them alongside other assessments.

Did you find the assessment helpful in terms of educational provision? We're using this for a placement appeal.

Hi, I am a clinical psychologist although I tend to use the WAIS (for adults) rather than the WISC. I would be very surprised to see a Full Scale IQ of 22 and this may be why they are saying it cant be calculated.

The average IQ is 100 with 80 -120 being in the average range. 70-80 is in the borderline range and below 70 indicates significant impairment and people with a learning disability are in this range as they are when the IQ is below 55 and comes into the 'severely impaired' bracket.

Because the assessment covers a lot of different tests (subtests) if there is a big difference between these sometimes we say that we cant calculate the Full Scale IQ because it isnt really representative - if someone scores really highly on some subtests and poorer on others then it distorts the overall result. So it sounds like your son has been in this situation - performed relatively well on some subtests and less well on others. I am happy to try and answer more specific questions but it sounds like you could approach whoever administered the assessment for specific information about your son's results.

Another parent with a bit more specialist knowledge. You have to look in the book to calculate an IQ but an IQ of 22 would be really unusual and would probably mean they couldn't do any of the tests (likely nonverbal and nonresponsive TBH).
9th centile is about an IQ of 80, at the top end of a mild learning disability, according to an online calculator I found.

I dont have the manual to check but a scaled score of 80 would be top end of borderline range (

Thank you all for your posts. My ds does have complex needs. I'll attach the composite score summary. I'd appreciate it if any of you could make any sense of it please.

The more I look into it the more confused I get! It sounds like asking the person who completed the assessment for some further explanation could be helpful?

The table

Happy to have a look if you want to send the summary.

There is another table with each subset on which is where the 9th percentile scores are detailed.

@Starryskiesinthesky thank you, may I pm it instead of posting please?

Ok, so a number of subtests are administered and they each are scored and then translated from raw scores into a scaled course. Then they are added up into the 4 Index Scores. So for your son, for Verbal Comprehension (VC) his sum of scaled scores is 2 which gives a VC score of 45 and so on. So his score of 76 is in the Borderline range and the others are all in the learning disability range. For Full Scale IQ they havent calculated it, so the Full Scale IQ score is not 22 - that is just the sum of scaled scores which hasnt been translated. Does that make any sense?

I am just realising that what I've said is still complicated!

Basically each subtest gets its own score and some count towards Verbal Comprehension, some toward Working Memory etc.

The raw score gets translated so that you can compare them against each other.

But, because of the issues with the scores being quite different (I assume thats why) they havent translated the Full Scale IQ score and you just have the added up raw scores there.

But please feel free to PM me if you would prefer?

@Starryskiesinthesky thank you, I really appreciate you replying. Is the fsiq irrelevant because of the difference in scores? Part of me wondered if the EP was being kind in not calculating it as I guess it would still be very low?

I posted that before I'd read your last comment. Thank you, you did it explain it well xx

I would be surprised if they didn't calculate it to be kind, I am not sure of the 'rules' about when you dont calculate it but in our service we usually do but just are then cautious about how we interpret the result given the differences between other scores. The one thing that I think may be an error is the score of 22 - that should be the sum of the scores in the first column so 24 rather than 22.

As I said above, the Full Scale IQ isnt an average so a scaled score of 22 / 24 would probably produce a Full Scale IQ somewhere in the 50's which isn't so low that it is very unusual. The ranges are 55 - 70 for mild learning disability and below that is moderate so it sounds like he would be on the cusp of those.

It does tell you that your son has the most difficulty understanding verbal information (particulalry verbal information that he isnt well practised with) whereas he is quite good at working things out (Fluid Reasoning).

I feel like I need to add a disclaimer saying that I am saying this as someone who does not use the WISC and that you are best to ask for more information from the service that did it (but I am reasonably confident about everything I have said!).

Meant to say that Fluid Reasoning is a good skill to have as being the thing you do best.

I think this must have been the WISC IV rather than the V because there should also be a Visual Spatial Index for the V. If it's the IV then yes, the differences between the indexes mean the FSIQ isn't valid - you'd be calculating an average with too wide a range of scores. i would generally say the psychologist completing it then needs to think about each area and recommendations for them i.e. higher score in fluid reasoning suggests he may benefit from visually based information, particularly given that verbal skills are his lowest area; poor working memory means he'll need visual aids and chunking of information and high level of repetition.
This range of scores would potentially indicate a child with an Intellectual Disability but you would need an assessment of adaptive functioning skills too and an understanding of wider history and engagement with the WISC itself.
Can't speak to educational provision in detail as I'm a clinical psychologist so i don't use it specifically to assess placement needs, though will recommend support strategies for areas of weakness.

@Starryskiesinthesky thank you so much for breaking this down for me. I'd have been awake all night going through this and not getting very far. We were expecting low scores but my heart sank at 22. Have a good evening and thank you again

You are welcome!

@Thalia21 there was also a visual puzzles with a raw score of 12 and a scaled score of 6. There are recommendations detailed similar to the examples you have given. I'm just starting to fully digest it. My ds is goingtho high school and we don't agree with the school the LA has named. We're not surprised as such by the scores. Seeing them in black and white brings it home a little. Thank you for your reply and joining the provision to the scores.

Just to add the guidance is that a difference of 23 or more points between indexes is the recommended limit for the FSIQ not being valid in the WISC IV.
Weschler don't have the same guidance for the WISC V becauses of changes in how it's scored but since there's no visual spatial index reported I'm assuming it's the WISC IV.

@Thalia21it's definitely the wisc v, the visual special is detailed in the subtest table but isn't on the summary table. It was a visual puzzle test.

Would your last post mean that the FSIQ could have been calculated please as that guidance isn't there?

I'm an EP.. I never report full scale IQ. I report the various index scores (eg verbal comprehensive, working memory etc) as these suggest particular things the child may have difficulties with or be good at. The full scale lumps everything in together and the finer details of the child's strengths and needs can get lost. When I do an assessment, I'm trying to work out the specifics of what is easy / hard for that child because this tells us what kind of support they need. An overall score is not particularly useful.