That the Gov & Post Office have been horrendous in the response to the Post Office scandal?

[FavouritePi]

Listening to what happened on Radio 4 - people committed suicide, others imprisoned and gone bankrupt over shortfalls the Post Office had claimed were occuring but CEOs had been aware of a system issue years before. Compensation was then only menial in relation to how this has impacted people financially and mentally.

@Polyanthus2

Many were Asian - I'm sure there was racism in this too

I am not sure there was racism, they appear to have treated everyone badly and still are by making sure compensation is not fully paid now. Although, I have no idea how you could compensate someone for the trauma of this.

@FavouriteFortnight

Also don't forget that you have to pay for your board and lodging in prison out of your compensation. Presumably if you were imprisoned in a fancy jail you could end up owing money to the Home Office.

Sorry WHAT?

Did you not know ?

People wrongly convicted are required to pay the Home Office for the cost of staying in prison out of any compensation awards.

Given how hard it is to get compensation for wrongful convictions now there is a possibility that you could end up owing the Home Office for your stay.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-458006/Man-wrongly-jailed-years-charged-7-000-Home-Office-board-lodging.html

Instead, he was flabbergasted to learn the Home Office now intends to charge him nearly £7,000 for "board and lodging".

The money is for the cost of food and accommodation while he was behind bars, and will be deducted from whatever compensation he receives for wrongly imprisonment.

for example.

People wrongly convicted are required to pay the Home Office for the cost of staying in prison out of any compensation awards.

I didn't know this either.

That's bloody mad.

So if you're actually a criminal in the eyes of the law, you get to stay in the prison for nothing. However, if there's been a miscarriage of justice and it's later proved you're not guilty you have to compensate the Home Office for your stay.

Beggars belief.

Not at all unreasonable, it's a national scandal and a gargantuan miscarriage if justice. The PO, Fujitsu and their auditors face massive failings to answer for.

Various actions by the offending parties constitute fraud, breaches of employment and contract law, and perverting the course of justice. Anyone who pursued these cases while misrepresenting facts deserves a prison sentence.

In case it's not clear, the whole thing angers and upsets me greatly.

Finished the podcast. It's almost unbelievable how much the victims suffered and how hard they tried to jump through the hoops held with zero justification by the Post Office.

I know this is an old thread but I've just been listening to the podcast for the first time. It's been updated several times and there are now 17 episodes. I am so angry about it all. I knew about this scandal before but the details are heartbreaking. At least five people caught up in it have killed themselves, IIRC, and many have died before having their convictions overturned or getting the paltry compensation for having their lives ruined.

Anyway, it now looks as if there was without any doubt at all a racist element to this. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65730464 No words for this. Not even an ancient document that nobody had thought to get rid of. Introduced no more than 15 years ago! What possible explanation could there be for this racial profiling other than racism?

Also, I think it was a whistleblower from Fujitsu who said when calls from desperate postmasters came into the open plan office where the Horizon helpline staff worked it was common to hear the staff say 'I've got another Patel on the line!' and it was all a big laugh.

The guidance, which was reportedly published between 2008 and 2011, required investigators to give sub-postmasters under suspicion a number, according to their racial background. The numbered categories on the document include 'Chinese/Japanese types', 'Dark Skinned European Types' and 'Negroid Types' - an archaic and offensive term from the colonial era of the 1800s that refers to people of African descent. A Post Office spokesperson described it as a "historic document" but said the organisation did not tolerate racism "in any shape or form" and condemned the "abhorrent" language. "We fully support investigations into Post Office's past wrongdoings and believe the Horizon IT Inquiry will help ensure today's Post Office has the confidence of its Postmasters and the communities it supports," the spokesperson added. The document was discovered as part of a freedom of information request from a campaigner supporting the more than 700 branch managers who were prosecuted between 1999 and 2015 on theft, fraud and false accounting charges.

Unbelievable isn't it? And what's worst of all is the victims are STILL fighting for justice and compensation.

Oh yes, and then the Post Office just put the cherry on the top by awarding senior managers substantial bonuses for doing what they are legally required to do and giving evidence to the statutory inquiry.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65963710

It beggars belief that noone thought to look closely at the software. The company that wrote the code should be hammered especially their management.

It does. Apparently the UK ambassador to Japan had a visit from the CEO of Fujitsu who pretty much threatened to close the UK subsidiary if the Horizon contract were to be cancelled. So many of those big IT contracts went very badly wrong. The senior staff at the PO knew that Fujitsu were having problems for years but signed it off and went live with it anyway. They seem to have done everything they could to prevent being open about this.

I don't think I could live with myself if I knew that a pregnant woman had gone to prison, leaving her young children and her husband behind, and given birth there because I had covered up the real reason her post office accounts wouldn't balance.

Apparently the UK ambassador to Japan had a visit from the CEO of Fujitsu who pretty much threatened to close the UK subsidiary if the Horizon contract were to be cancelled.

So much for "taking back control" eh ?

Perhaps you should look closely at when this happened and realise which government was responsible when the communication from Tokyo was received. That government was responsible for this for at least the following 12 years.

"In 1998, following a meeting between the British ambassador to Japan and Fujitsu executives, the British embassy in Tokyo wrote to the UK government warning it of serious economic repercussions, including UK job losses and reductions in trade, if Fujitsu’s software contract with the Post Office was cancelled."

That was exactly my point. We didn't have "control" then. And we don't now.

Because that is how international trade works.

Can anyone explain why Fujitsu haven’t been sued for millions for denying there was a problem - I would have thought that money could have compensated the post office staff.

The PO, Fujitsu and their auditors face massive failings to answer for

Good point about auditors. Isn’t this there actual job? Who audits the PO?

*their

The whole thing is outrageous. Few people have covered themselves in glory in this sorry scenario except for a couple of MPs past and present (eg James Arbuthnot - there appeared to be a cluster of cases in his constituency and he was also aware of the "computers "can't" make a mistake after a Chinook helicopter crash in the 90s and RAF Odiham was in his constituency)) and the lawyers who fought hard (and are still fighting hard) for their clients.

But so many others - MPs who ignored their constituents, post office staff who simply lied (and should be prosecuted for contempt of court and perverting the course of justice), lawyers who lied or were negligent and should be subject to regulatory action, current judges who refuse to simply rescind the convictions...the list goes on.

Also - has anyone actually found the "missing" money yet?

If you've not read it, it's well worth reading Nick Wallis's book.

Except we could have control if the people in charge had any guts or decency. We didn’t have to accept being blackmailed - that was a choice.

RM, the government, and the courts are all scum on this.

Private Eye deserves a mention for their coverage of Horizon and the Chinook crash

I worry about trial by jury for this reason. In theory it sounds like a good thing but there are some people who just aren't capable, yet they are given this huge responsibility.

Sorry I meant PO not RM.

Sadly, the case of the pregnant woman sent to prison does appear to be straightforward racism.

Just answered my own question about auditors. They were told by PO that the IT system was solid, infallible, so only look for either human error or stealing. So they audited only on that basis. Idiots.

The Post Office hired a forensic accountant who told them the system had a number of flaws. They buried his report.

They were told by PO that the IT system was solid, infallible

That is actually an impossibility under laws of nature. I know there is a current thrust to redefine facts, but I wasn't aware it was retrospective.