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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Am I worse off than someone on on UC??

166 replies

Underduvet33 · 18/02/2022 20:12

AIBU here to be annoyed? I recently heard someone say that they get £1300 in Universal credit per month and work 12hrs a week earning approx 300 pounds per month- plus they get all their childcare free as on UC plus require less childcare as only work 12 hours a week

That leaves them with 1600 to spend on rent etc (do they get help with this too??)

I don’t get any benefits I have 2 children in nursery full time- so I can work full time. Even with one of my children receiving 30 hours free - after childcare costs are deducted from my take home salary I’m left with 1100 a month to pay rent bills etc. i am in a good job with a good profession but it seems I’m worse off than someone on benefits?

Have I got this all wrong? If I quit my job worked and worked a small part time job claiming benefits of get more money per month in my pocket and spend more time with my kids?

I really think I must have misunderstood because I don’t get the impression that people on benefits are living the high life?

What have I misunderstood??? Were the numbers I told incorrect??

OP posts:
gumball37 · 19/02/2022 23:44

I'm in the United States so it's different here. But I'm actually doing quite well on "benefits". I lost my amazing paying job. Can't find anything but low pay work that doesn't even give me a consistent amount of hours. So now, me and my kids get free healthcare (so doctor visits and medication with little to no copay). Over $700 a month in food stamps (which even I think is excessive.... I currently have almost 6000 that I haven't spent because we don't go through that much food in a month). Help with internet costs. Help with heating costs. Help with electric costs. Is it "fair".... Well.... I don't know. Is it fair that I was fired because the owner's daughter didn't like me and my skills don't transfer to any other positions? Would it be "fair" to my kids if I worked 3 jobs and never saw them, leaving my teen to watch the little kids on weekends, just so I could say "well I'm paying my own way"? Meh... At this point I just don't care anymore. Life isn't fair. I'm doing my best and I've payed into the system for over 20 years without using it, so why not get the help now? It's me and 3 kids. No parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, siblings, etc.... So when I die I want my kids to at least remember they had me and I want my life to be with them, not working in some thankless job just to make someone else think that at least it's fair that I don't make more than them in benefits.

Nomoresmoresthensnores · 20/02/2022 17:04

@TheHateIsNotGood I'm sorry you're stuck where you are. It is shit.
If carers allowance is 300 a month and currently I earn £1200 so UC knock off £500. Therefore I'd get £800 if I didn't work. So £100 a week or £1200 if I do plus the UC. But that extra doesn't really considered work related costs such as travel.
With carers you can then earn £140 a week...so see it would be more if I dropped my hours right down..
The £400 a month makes a difference for me now .... but when you are working 27 hours, caring and doing college... it's quite exhaustingSmile. I know plenty of people who do a the under the threshold hours plus carers. They are not as knackered as me!
There is definitely a golden work hours/UC formula. But I haven't worked it out.
My plan is to get a better paid job with less hours .. not entirely impossible.

TheHateIsNotGood · 20/02/2022 17:39

Thanks nomore - I think my UC entitlement circumstances are poss a bit different to yours. And I hear you on the 'golden formula' - I might be better off if I stopped claiming Carers - leaving all my max entitlement to UC of £488 (standard rate + carer's element) subject to the earnings tapir.

I don't know - so I'm just keeping on working and caring and looking for more work.

I just think if Carers of Adults had some UC Work Allowance applied to their earnings, say even just £150 it would be really helpful.

I'm trying to start a .Gov petition to get this looked into and literally need just 5 more sigs (poss 4) to see if it's viable in the first instance.

I'm being a bit forward in asking I know (one kind MNetter has already helped) but want to check it's viable befor I spread it around.

PM if you're interested please.

However, as I'm constantly looking for more work, and I go over the UC earnings, but under home a total of £135

Off the top of my head my max entitlement under

TheHateIsNotGood · 20/02/2022 17:43

ignore last 2 paras - oops didn't check before pressing post.

Nomoresmoresthensnores · 20/02/2022 21:18

Not forward in asking...but due to my gov job can't do those things...but well done for doing it.

CayrolBaaaskin · 20/02/2022 23:22

@Graphista - im surprised you seem to know so many people who can’t get work. Businesses don’t seem to be able to fill roles where I am. Also most offices at least are still working from home.

Not sure what you mean with comments re “shocker, going to work has costs”. I was acutely aware when I was working that it cost me a fortune in childcare and transport and despite a very large salary I wouldn’t have been much worse off on benefits or doing a few hours at minimum wage and getting topped up (this was pre benefits cap and i knew quite a few people getting huge London rents paid). It’s so stressful being in the position having to work all the time in a busy job with young kids trying to hold it all together. As I said, it was preferable being on benefits when I lost my job. At least for a while.

I think we should be able to discuss benefits without all the accusations of “benefit bashing”. It’s not constructive to just cause people of benefits bashing when you don’t agree with them.

MaryAndHerNet · 21/02/2022 00:30

im surprised you seem to know so many people who can’t get work. Businesses don’t seem to be able to fill roles where I am.

Just because there are roles, doesn't mean that they're suitable for people to fill them.

I live in the North East. I live in a small town just north of a bigger city.

You look at the jobs, you might find 30 within 5 miles of where I am.
So I Wade through those 30+

10 will be for the big nearby employer. They expect staff to work 6am - 6pm 4 on 3 off.
No good for single parents reliant on childcare, they employ a lot of single guys and bus in men that all flat share.

5 will be at the small Asda / Coop / Lidl and other retail places.
Retail expect weekend work or late nights. Lidl and Aldi used to expect you to be available 6am till.midnogh and they'll schedule you on for whatever hours during that time. So no good for me and other single parents, childcare doesn't tend to be available up to midnight or at 2pm on a Sunday.
So that 30+ is down to around 10ish

Some are farm jobs... Yeah, don't even bother 5am start, 10pm finishes.
Some want 8am start, childcare round here starts at 8am so you can't get actually get there.
Some will be rota where you don't know what you're working from one week to the next so can't arrange childcare easily unless the employer is very very flexible.

Then there's the continental shift patterns they work at the food manufacturer nearby
6-2, 2-10, 10-6 none of those shifts are suitable for single parents.

So I'm down to 2 or 3 possible admin / office roles that are 20 minutes away and want 8.30-5.30 perfect.

Guess what... I apply... But for those 3 jobs, there's 100 applications each because the job centre insist everyone applies.
If you're lucky enough to get called and chat to them, invariably they'll ask about school holidays.. at which point I'll inform them that I'd be reliant on finding daughter a place in paid for child care, which they'll ask of I have family to look after her in emergencies, which I don't... Then the conversation turns frosty and it's buh bye..

This all sounds a bit daft I suppose, but it's exactly what happens every day when I sit to do my 5 hours job searching.

Lalala1 · 21/02/2022 12:49

@MaryAndHerNet

im surprised you seem to know so many people who can’t get work. Businesses don’t seem to be able to fill roles where I am.

Just because there are roles, doesn't mean that they're suitable for people to fill them.

I live in the North East. I live in a small town just north of a bigger city.

You look at the jobs, you might find 30 within 5 miles of where I am.
So I Wade through those 30+

10 will be for the big nearby employer. They expect staff to work 6am - 6pm 4 on 3 off.
No good for single parents reliant on childcare, they employ a lot of single guys and bus in men that all flat share.

5 will be at the small Asda / Coop / Lidl and other retail places.
Retail expect weekend work or late nights. Lidl and Aldi used to expect you to be available 6am till.midnogh and they'll schedule you on for whatever hours during that time. So no good for me and other single parents, childcare doesn't tend to be available up to midnight or at 2pm on a Sunday.
So that 30+ is down to around 10ish

Some are farm jobs... Yeah, don't even bother 5am start, 10pm finishes.
Some want 8am start, childcare round here starts at 8am so you can't get actually get there.
Some will be rota where you don't know what you're working from one week to the next so can't arrange childcare easily unless the employer is very very flexible.

Then there's the continental shift patterns they work at the food manufacturer nearby
6-2, 2-10, 10-6 none of those shifts are suitable for single parents.

So I'm down to 2 or 3 possible admin / office roles that are 20 minutes away and want 8.30-5.30 perfect.

Guess what... I apply... But for those 3 jobs, there's 100 applications each because the job centre insist everyone applies.
If you're lucky enough to get called and chat to them, invariably they'll ask about school holidays.. at which point I'll inform them that I'd be reliant on finding daughter a place in paid for child care, which they'll ask of I have family to look after her in emergencies, which I don't... Then the conversation turns frosty and it's buh bye..

This all sounds a bit daft I suppose, but it's exactly what happens every day when I sit to do my 5 hours job searching.

This! People think there’s “loads” of jobs out there so how can u not work but don’t realise the majority of employers want the employees to be flexible very few are the opposite way around which would obviously help more single parents into work and off benefits.

IMO I’d like to see employers be made to keep a certain amount of positions of employment solely for single parents with school hours as right now if a single parent and someone without kids goes for the same position the chances are the latter will get the vacancy!

Graphista · 21/02/2022 13:29

I don't really feel qualified to comment on the carers side of things save to say I know carers are treated appallingly and expected to live on a pittance but I've no lived experience of that

@gumball37 I'm surprised at your post simply as the impression we get in the uk about the welfare system in the USA is that it's pretty poorly administered and is usually insufficient but that's not to say I disbelieve you. I have family in USA but they've no experience of this as they're fortunate enough to be comfortably off and able to work

@CayrolBaaaskin I know a fair few people out of work at the moment following job loss during the pandemic because they are about my age (in their 50's) which is a notoriously difficult time to find work especially for women and they were all their working lives in industries that not only have been hardest hit by the pandemic but also brexit (mainly hospitality/tourism) which are also industries and roles where a certain level of physical fitness is required - which they have - but it's hard to prove that to prospective employers in your 50's! They tend to assume youngsters are fitter and more up to the work. They don't have training or qualifications or experience in admin, retail, care work etc and due to the massive cuts in education and training it's nigh on impossible to get into courses to retrain. Employers market at the moment so they can expect and require insane minimum entry requirements that aren't really necessary I've seen shelf filling jobs advertised as requiring highers! (Roughly equivalent to a-levels) here

Your comment also calls to mind a conversation I had with my dad some years back. At the time my sister and I were both single parents looking for full time work, her youngest had just started school, I was coming out of a long period of serious ill health, my daughter was looking for a part time job to fit around school. We were all bemoaning the lack of jobs and that even if we did find something to apply for we were unsuccessful.

He gave it "but I see the local free paper every day and there's loads of jobs advertised" he was purely going off that

What he wasn't considering/aware of was how much things had changed since he last looked for work (in the 60's!) and he hadn't looked at the exact jobs in detail.

I spent an afternoon with him going through not only the jobs in the paper but also those advertised online and we went through them in more detail and I was pointing out why the vast majority of them were not viable -

Hours outside of what childcare was locally available (for roles he was thinking sister could do)

Location - often on industrial estates to which there was no public transport (sister couldn't afford to run a car, I was on meds that I couldn't drive on) or the public transport didn't fit in with the hours of the job - and I don't mean we'd be waiting around a bit I mean last bus leaving hours before shift ended etc, taxis would be too expensive as a long term solution (he'd made a comment re the INTERVIEW "just get a taxi I'll pay for it" "are you gonna pay for taxis for me to get there and back every day?")

Qualifications and experience required that we didn't have - quite specialised roles in a local industry think electrician level knowledge - and the local college due to cuts was no longer offering the appropriate courses, nearest college for this over 20 miles away.

Employers requiring recent experience within last 5 years - this ruled me out as I hadn't worked due to ill health for around 7 years at this point, also ruled dd out as she was a school aged teen with no experience yet (seriously there were sat morning newsagent jobs asking for 2 years recent experience!)

Low pay combined with location meaning that we'd basically be paying to commute let alone other costs

And then even when there were jobs advertised that were viable and we had the qualifications for etc we'd apply and not get. He got very frustrated about that one at which point I showed him the screen on my tablet (gift from he and mum to both of us the previous Christmas to help with job hunting etc) with the online job sites that showed how many applicants there'd been per role and they were well into the hundreds!

To say he was shocked is a massive understatement

The friends and family I am referencing who are job hunting now in their 50's haven't done so since the 80's/90's, they've worked for the same employer since they left school/college and thought they had jobs for life or even if they changed employers they did so through connections like family and didn't have to apply or go to interviews etc

They're now completely thrown at how competitive and demanding the job market is, they've done no studying in all that time either and have also been shocked at how decimated the further education system now is for adults over the age of 25.

It's led to some v interesting conversations. About jobs, education, employers expectations, politics and policies and yes benefits.

They were so out of touch with that side of things.

I have also been a working single mum when my dd was little so yes I absolutely agree it's incredibly difficult and stressful and as I said expensive and I only had the 1! So I do get that it's hard.

At that time I commuted 90 mins each way daily, everything was a rush, I'd hardly any time to spend with dd and when I did have time off I was mainly catching up with chores and doing grocery shopping etc but at the time I thought I was doing the right thing by working, contributing to society, setting a good example for dd etc now I wonder if it really was the right decision for a number of reasons not least the effect on my Mh

The thread is about benefits and benefit bashers do exist so when I've referenced them I haven't necessarily been accusing anyone of being one (though there is of course an element of "if the cap fits")

I feel strongly that rather than blaming or vilifying those of us on benefits we should all be pulling together and directing our anger and frustration where it belongs!

At the govt and policy makers who DO have the power and the will to make ALL our lives better IF they gave a damn!

The big problem we have at the moment is having a govt, a cabinet who have NO CLUE what it's like to be in ANY of our shoes.

These are people who probably don't even know what their bills are, what their overall outgoings are because they have - and have always had - enough money to never need to worry about if they'll make the rent, or have to decide whether to buy bread OR milk, or having to make the decision to get a child new shoes and continue wearing leaky holey shoes yourself

They haven't the lived experience of struggling to get a job they have been handed EVERYTHING they haven't really grafted or achieved anything solely on their own merits!

I posted this on another thread re inequality in our society but I reckon it works here in reference to this too

m.imgur.com/gallery/j7v8Uhy

They THINK they "worked hard" to get where they are - they're clueless!

Graphista · 21/02/2022 13:47

@MaryAndHerNet excellent post and spot on this is exactly the issue. And in a lot of cases I think the shifts employers want to use/provide don't need to work that way! I remember as a student myself working in retail and the retail companies covered all their hours of business by having shifts that suited mums, shifts that suited students, shifts that suited dads as a 2nd job etc - all their opening hours were covered but the employees had set days and hours they worked every week everyone knew where they stood and the work got done!

I have NO idea when and why that changed it makes NO sense to me

Surely all that matters is the hours are covered and the work is done

Eg I used to as a schoolkid work a Thu and Fri eve after school and a sat morning. Colleagues who were mums with young/primary aged children to consider worked 10-3 Mon-Fri, colleagues who had elderly relatives they cared for or a husband to work around worked eve and weekends when either husband was looking after kids/relative or another relative was who worked "office hours"

Having set days/hours every week that are the same allows employees to be able to make suitable arrangements for their other commitments

The current situation where employers can and do demand employees work anywhere between 2-10 hours within a working day of 6am to midnight up to 10-12 hour shifts is LUDICROUS!

This govt LOVES to demonise those on benefits yet does sod all to make work suitable and doable for ordinary people and certainly does sod all to create jobs!

but don’t realise the majority of employers want the employees to be flexible

Flexible is putting it mildly

At their bloody beck and call is more like it!

I also think this means that employees are less productive cos they're so knackered and stressed!

If employers were more reasonable and considered employees needs they'd have a loyal, productive and healthy workforce

So this is counter productive for them too!

MaryAndHerNet · 21/02/2022 14:45

@Graphista that cartoon strip is absolutely bang on.

I worked for 13 years for a place. Started at the bottom, got up to office, supervisor, manager etc

Then a 19 year old kid walks in. They gave him 2 weeks trials in each department and let him pick which one he'd like to work in. He chose the department with the dudebros... Turns out, this kid... Child of the MDs neighbour. Nepotism and luck will beat hard work Every. Single. Time.

Graphista · 21/02/2022 16:39

Oh I know!

That's why I post it fairly often I've had similar experiences. One job I was (naively - I was young!) hoping for a promotion to office supervisor, bosses stepson swans in and takes it with zero qualifications or experience - muggins here spent months answering his questions on how to work spreadsheets! I wouldn't do that now I'd let him sink!

CayrolBaaaskin · 22/02/2022 00:40

I’m a single mum and I have pretty much always worked. Most of the other single mums I know also work at least part time. In my experience, at the moment, employers (my own included) can’t get staff. Certainly it’s hard as a single mum with no family support and many employers are not flexible (and should be more so) but I don’t recognize the employment situation you talk about.

I’m from a deprived background too and have no family connections in my particular industry. But I studied and worked hard to get where I am. It’s just not true that hard work never pays. Of course you need skills too and luck and connections often play a part but in reality most people have to work hard to achieve even if luck plays a part.

I know someone who has just started a university degree at 50 and I’m not much off that age myself. I’d definitely encourage people to be more positive and look at what opportunities are out there.

oviraptor21 · 22/02/2022 09:23

but it's hard to prove that to prospective employers in your 50's! They tend to assume youngsters are fitter and more up to the work

I don't recognise this. There's no reason why 50 year old wouldn't be as fit or fitter than 20 year olds and it would be age discrimination to suggest otherwise. However, how someone prsents at interview and references will likely uncover lack of stamina for the role for older applicants? Also those who have been in manual labour all their lives are more likely to have long term issues. So it's not the age per se, it's a whole host of things.

and due to the massive cuts in education and training it's nigh on impossible to get into courses to retrain.

I agree with this 100%. When I was looking to return to work, it was exceptionally difficult to find suitable courses to refresh and extend my skills. And I was lucky I could pay for them. I despair for those on benefits who need basic skills and English language (often) training because the training is just not there.

Employers market at the moment

It really isn't. It's the best employees market it's been for a long time due to Brexit and people taking early retirement following covid or the covid restructuring of employment.

MaryAndHerNet · 22/02/2022 10:37

Back and forth back and forth...

"Here's my experience"
"That's my experience too"
"And mine, 5 hours a day I get that sort of stuff..."

"Well it's not my experience"
"I don't recognise that at all"

So on and so on and so on.

Let us remember that differences come from:
Area
Experience
Situation
Age
Sex
Parent status
Etc etc

My situation is not anyone elses. Someone in work in Manchester looking at the job market will have a different view from someone that's in Grimsby thats unemployed and is made to do 30+ hours job hunting weekly.

CayrolBaaaskin · 24/02/2022 19:56

@MaryAndHerNet - of course. We all have different experiences and all are valid

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