Reporting someone for admissions fraud

[LaTristesseDureraEntre]

NC for this.

I've reported someone for admissions fraud/ giving a false address. Someone in my social circle. They've used their old home address for school applications, but that home is now a holiday let (they still own it) and they've moved down the road to a cheaper area. I sent the LA some info and will let them draw their own conclusions. I did it partly because it affects me/my family (in the obvious way - child in the same school year, tight catchment for desirable school). But tbh I find their behaviour awful so I imagine I'd have been minded to do it anyway.

AIBU? I know on MN the normal response is "keep your beak out" but, really, would you have kept quiet?

And no, before anyone starts, no “Ooh maybe child has special needs / husband is polygamous / there’s a special underground tunnel linking the two properties so that they are in fact one”. Just pure old address fakery. WIBU?

* I had to get 8 buses a day to get there and back increasing to 10 when dd2 started pre school..11 when working.*

@ThanksItHasPockets

We don’t have catchments in Bristol, just those in care/adopted/EHCP then siblings, then distance

What's hard to believe ?

Bus to town. Bus to the school. 2 buses back again. Bus to town grab dd from pre school. Bus home. Bus to town then bus to school. Then bus from school to town bus home. Bus to work.

You've done the right thing.

I don't know what to think about this but do feel if someone doesn't think it's all that terrible, other people retorting, "Would you rob a bank?" (my exaggerated paraphrase), is not the way to have a discussion. Not reporting someone for an issue like this is not at all the same as turning a blind eye to a case of bullying, abuse or grand larceny. It's our duty to speak up to protect vulnerable people.

I've never been in the position of the op or even given it much thought; it's a long time since I was choosing schools for mine. Where I live there are a lot of good schools and excellent transport links. People don't have to live in a catchment area for their children to attend a particular school, many apply from outside and are successful; my immediate neighbours' children went to a primary school and later a grammar, both in different education authorities, plenty of others did and do the same. The schools weren't far away.

If a child is not accepted for one school, they go to another. Most put their names down for more than one.

Lots of siblings round here go to different schools to each other, especially secondaries, nobody thinks anything of it.

Obviously it is quite different for people living rurally, us townies probably don't understand. It would never have occurred to me in a million years to either move house, or pretend to do so, in order to be in a prime position for school admission. However had there been only one or two really good schools within easy reach, I might have felt differently. We'll never know.

It's a great shame that such things cause resentment and competitiveness amongst parents and I hope, however the parents feel, the kids themselves aren't too conscious of it. It isn't their fault after all.

Catchment areas are not set in our area, they change year on year, and I think are measured by road rather than as the crow flies. We live a few hundred metres from the nearest primary school and people at the other end of our road (less than 20 houses away) didn't get in one year because there were so many siblings.

[quote OnceuponaRainbow18]@ThanksItHasPockets

We don’t have catchments in Bristol, just those in care/adopted/EHCP then siblings, then distance[/quote]
Bristol primaries use straight line distance but quite a few Bristol secondaries have defined catchments. They are referred to as ‘priority areas’ to distinguish from those using ‘catchment’ to refer to the admissions area created by straight line distance admissions, which can change every year.

www.bristol.gov.uk/schools-learning-early-years/bristol-secondary-school-places-and-geographical-area-that-schools-cover

If they have spaces left over after the defines catchments area

Then it becomes distance

[quote Toanewstart23]@Pipsquiggle

For our school it was, In order of priority

Children in care, looked after
Siblings
Catchment area[/quote]
@Toanewstart23

So I have had experience of 3 different boroughs admission procedures (moved around when my DC1 was very young).

The first 2 boroughs were the same of yours - in order of priority.

Our current borough for both primaries and secondaries - in order of priority is:
Children in care, looked after
Catchment area (which is defined on a map)
Siblings
Distance

It's pretty brutal and there are quite a few parents every year who don't read the admissions policy who then moan 'My DC aren't in the same school - what am I going to do?'
My hunch is that the council brought in this policy as too many people in the past were 'house hopping' - moving close to a desirable school for a few months for their first child for admissions, then moving further away to a bigger house once DC1 is in.

Personally I love your style because this sort of shit boils my piss. I hope they don't get a place it will serve them right for being not only cheaters but bragging cheaters!

Another thing which is relevant here is rumours/gossip which is not true. The damage done by untrue rumours/gossip can be extensive.
There are children at my dc's school who have been bullied and excluded because of untrue rumours/gossip. A rumour never goes away and it is usually the children who are affected most, so be careful with your reporting.

It isn't simply a matter of "it will be investigated and if nothing is wrong no one will be hurt". Investigations are really stressful to deal with, and the rumours which circulate along with the investigations last endlessly, affecting the whole family.

@mynewbeamer

Another thing which is relevant here is rumours/gossip which is not true. The damage done by untrue rumours/gossip can be extensive. There are children at my dc's school who have been bullied and excluded because of untrue rumours/gossip. A rumour never goes away and it is usually the children who are affected most, so be careful with your reporting.

It isn't simply a matter of "it will be investigated and if nothing is wrong no one will be hurt". Investigations are really stressful to deal with, and the rumours which circulate along with the investigations last endlessly, affecting the whole family.

If there are rumours or gossip about the family in the OP it will be because the mother was indiscreet, not because OP has reported.

@TrufflesAndToast @myrtleWilson

It’s not for her to Police is it? Particularly as it’s her friend! Bitchy circles!

If my child wasn’t entitled to a place due to whatever reason then I would weigh up other options.

She is pissed at the system and taking her frustrations out on this friend. It’s not appropriate. Surely there are other ways to flag up issues with the system that don’t involve sobbing in a friend.

It’s not for her to Police is it? Particularly as it’s her friend! Bitchy circles!

She’s still not my friend. Surely “friend of a friend” isn’t a concept I invented? You know when you go to a playgroup or BBQ and there’s someone there who was in so-n-so’s NCT’s group / worked with Thingy / lived next door to Whatsit? One of those.

If my child wasn’t entitled to a place due to whatever reason then I would weigh up other options.

It’s the acquaintance’s (I think that’s the word you’re looking for) who is not entitled to a place and who should be considering other options. Her behaviour means another child (maybe OP’s maybe someone else’s) will not get a place they are entitled to.

She is pissed at the system and taking her frustrations out on this friend. It’s not appropriate. Surely there are other ways to flag up issues with the system that don’t involve sobbing in a friend.

There is no indication that OP is pissed off with the system. She may be very happy with the system. She is pissed off with the acquaintance trying to defraud the system.

I think it is perfectly acceptable for the OP to take this course of action.

I meant in the OP's position I would have had the quandary between reporting them for breaking the rules vs going with social rules that seem to suggest people should stay out of other people's business.

I'd say it's a given to stay out of other people's business for certain things, but when it's your own child that potentially loses out on a place at a local school, potentially due to their child getting a place due to their fraud, it very much stops being their business and starts being your own.

Also, I think if people are changing address so soon after getting children into schools, the schools should be able to ask or get proof about their change of home address i.e. if someone says they've moved into new rented accommodation they need to provide a rental agreement for the new address, or if they say they've bought a new house they need to provide documents saying they've just bought that house, and not that they already owned it for the 5 years previously.

I have less of a problem with people actually moving and choosing to keep their children in the same school to reduce disruption and other aspects etc. than I do against people fraudulently manipulating the system to somebody elses direct detriment.

[quote WeddingHangover]**@TrufflesAndToast* @myrtleWilson*

It’s not for her to Police is it? Particularly as it’s her friend! Bitchy circles!

If my child wasn’t entitled to a place due to whatever reason then I would weigh up other options.

She is pissed at the system and taking her frustrations out on this friend. It’s not appropriate. Surely there are other ways to flag up issues with the system that don’t involve sobbing in a friend.[/quote]
Not sure where to start with this

• They’re not friends, as she has repeatedly stated.

• Her child will potentially lose out on a place because of this person and any other cheaters.

• Why is it not for her to police? An admissions officer has spoken on this thread about how much they rely on tip offs. If people didn’t do that then fraud would occur much more widely and even more children would miss out on their local community school.

• It is the cheater’s child who should be weighing up other options as SHE is the one not entitled to a place, not the OP. The OP will presumably weigh up other options if her child doesn’t get in but at least she’ll know that wasn’t because of this cheater wrongfully claiming a place.

• No one has a problem with the system. They have a problem with fraudsters cheating the (otherwise largely fair) distance-based admissions system to the detriment of other (usually less well off) children.

• ‘Dobbing in’ is such negative and immature language for reporting fraud. If there is no fraud the report won’t amount to anything - so what’s the problem.

Yet another victim blaming poster who thinks kids should miss out on school places that are rightfully theirs so that well off fraudsters can go there. I’ve never seen so much anti-child sentiment on one thread before, it’s awful.

I noticed a house opposite my dd’s school with various families just parking there at school pick up/drop off but no signs of anyone actually living there. A large family with multiple cousins/uncles/aunties etc were basically splitting the cost of rent each month to use the address and get their kids in the best school. I reported the address and what I’d seen, only to be told I wasn’t the first. No regrets. I don’t know the outcome as they can’t tell me but I do know ‘action was taken’ in their words and I no longer see loads of different cars/kids there each day! It’s hard to get in the school and not fair on honest people like us who could have missed out on a place because it’s as the crow flies and that house is literally a stones throw from the school gates

What we really need is for all schools to be good and then children could all happily go to their nearest school. If only.

[quote WeddingHangover]**@TrufflesAndToast* @myrtleWilson*

It’s not for her to Police is it? Particularly as it’s her friend! Bitchy circles!

If my child wasn’t entitled to a place due to whatever reason then I would weigh up other options.

She is pissed at the system and taking her frustrations out on this friend. It’s not appropriate. Surely there are other ways to flag up issues with the system that don’t involve sobbing in a friend.[/quote]
I didn't think the OP was drunk when she did it

@ancientgran

What we really need is for all schools to be good and then children could all happily go to their nearest school. If only.

I agree and think most people would. That plus a nurturing home environment.

We live in hope.

It's not as simple as that.

All the schools in my London borough are judged to be either 'good' or 'outstanding' by Ofsted. There aren't any 'poor' schools.

Yet there are some that are most definitely favoured by some sectors of the community, and some by others.