Reporting someone for admissions fraud

[LaTristesseDureraEntre]

NC for this.

I've reported someone for admissions fraud/ giving a false address. Someone in my social circle. They've used their old home address for school applications, but that home is now a holiday let (they still own it) and they've moved down the road to a cheaper area. I sent the LA some info and will let them draw their own conclusions. I did it partly because it affects me/my family (in the obvious way - child in the same school year, tight catchment for desirable school). But tbh I find their behaviour awful so I imagine I'd have been minded to do it anyway.

AIBU? I know on MN the normal response is "keep your beak out" but, really, would you have kept quiet?

And no, before anyone starts, no “Ooh maybe child has special needs / husband is polygamous / there’s a special underground tunnel linking the two properties so that they are in fact one”. Just pure old address fakery. WIBU?

@WeddingHangover

That’s a really shitty thing of you to do.

So you'd be happy to give up a place for your child at a school you wanted because someone else was cheating the system?

@Ericthesnail

I used to manage a School Admissions Team and was the person who had to make the final decision on fraudulent applications. Most of the applications we investigated came in as a result of an anonymous tip off , sometimes more than one about the same parent. All,tip offs were investigated and in many cases the place was withdrawn. In a smaller number of cases this happened after the child had started at the school so they had to leave.

In the years I worked in Admissions I had to update the policy on fraudulent applications on almost an annual basis to take into account the different things parents would try to do. We also had addresses that we knew were rented out each year to get children into a very desirable school. In the OPs case we would not accept the address of a property that was not the primary residential address so would withdraw the place if offered or move the application to the correct admission category if before offer day.

@Ericthesnail

That's really interesting, thanks for coming on the thread . Can I ask, would you try to investigate the anonymous tip off before a place is offered as OP seems to have done this whilst applications are being processed?

If you find out that an application address is false, but the applicant owns the 'false' property - would you give the applicant a chance to move into that property so they follow admissions rules?

I actually know someone who did this and then moved back to the bigger home after their DC being in the school for a half term, while another friends child missed out on a place in the school when they live 20 minutes away and are on the cusp of being in the catchment. It’s not fair and ridiculous that being honest in this day and age just means you get fucked over.

As it stood, the family were reported but they didn’t take the school place away as the child had settled. They did however remove sibling priority for the child’s younger siblings and now they have to ferry their children to two different schools.

I would investigate as soon it was reported to us as long as the other parent had actually made an application. Sometimes parents gave an tip off based on playground gossip and the parent in question has actually not applied for the school. I that vase we would move the child into what would be the correct admission category based on the proper address and to be fair we would let the parent know we had done this. If they were unhappy they would still have the right to appeal if this meant they didn't get the place.

I wouldn't give the parent the chance to move into the other property but if they chose to do so and provide evidence to support the change of address it would make a difference.

I am absolutely 100% against this …the damage it did to my 10 year old was bloody shocking..we finally got her to the school she had worked and deserved to go too …but it completely knocked the stuffing out of me as her Mum . We were articulate,confident and determined that our daughter wasn’t going to be robbed…a very poor example of parenting from the wealthy cheaters…my husband actually purchased the land of the family that were sneaking their child in 😂😂

@Macademiamum

I would not have reported them for using a home they own for school admissions. It doesn't seem like fraud to me.

But if they had a tenant renting that house also putting in a school admission it would negatively impact the tenant and get them both barred/refused a place. Or if they had a child attempting to get in that school and the owners child was registered as living there.

There’s so many ways and reasons this is wrong.

Fraud is fraud and we should treat it seriously.

@Callimanco

My DD missed out on a place at the school all her friends were headed to based on distance, by 8 metres. A child in the parallel class lived 2 miles away but claimed grandparent's address. I didn't report but I was sorely tempted. My DD was so upset at being the only child in class not offered a place - and the only one from our estate offered a place at a school further away - that it triggered an autoimmune condition.

I appealed, and won the appeal, but was off with stress for a fortnight. I couldn't believe how terribly I was affected. I literally couldn't sleep and was shaking at the thought of my child alone being impacted this way. There were only 2 appeals granted. It was horrific. Thinking your child's future will be severely impacted and there's almost nothing you can do about it is so incredibly stressful, I cannot tell you.

Well done you…your story is similar to ours…the whole palava bloody destroyed me TBH !!

I wouldn't do this to my enemy let alone to my friend. It's sad reading this thread knowing that those that posted saying they would, I hope I'm not a friend of yours. My dc will be going to private so it's not a case that I'm on the same boat as your friend and I'm against it for my own benefit but the fact that two wrongs don't make it right in my eyes is what the problem is for me. Your friend is wrong and so are you to call this person your friend where she confides in you and you go behind her back. This isn't her child's fault, you're just a petty person to take it out on a child. I'm aware another child loses a spot because of this but I still wouldn't be able to ruin it for a child where the parents have cheated the system. This is why you should be careful with what you share, never trust anyone where vultures await to take you down.

It's sad reading this thread knowing that those that posted saying they would, I hope I'm not a friend of yours.

I don't want to be friends with the sort of person who thinks admission fraud is fine.

Your friend is wrong and so are you to call this person your friend

She didn't call her a friend.

I'm aware another child loses a spot because of this but I still wouldn't be able to ruin it for a child where the parents have cheated the system

But you're OK with ruining it for the child who missed out. Odd morals there.

We were articulate,confident and determined that our daughter wasn’t going to be robbed…a very poor example of parenting from the wealthy cheaters…my husband actually purchased the land of the family that were sneaking their child in 😂😂

What?? You were articulate??

@chocolatebrowniesaddict

I wouldn't do this to my enemy let alone to my friend. It's sad reading this thread knowing that those that posted saying they would, I hope I'm not a friend of yours. My dc will be going to private so it's not a case that I'm on the same boat as your friend and I'm against it for my own benefit but the fact that two wrongs don't make it right in my eyes is what the problem is for me. Your friend is wrong and so are you to call this person your friend where she confides in you and you go behind her back. This isn't her child's fault, you're just a petty person to take it out on a child. I'm aware another child loses a spot because of this but I still wouldn't be able to ruin it for a child where the parents have cheated the system. This is why you should be careful with what you share, never trust anyone where vultures await to take you down.

Well, it's easy to feel sad when about a situation that doesn't and won't affect your child.

Have you read the posts by parents whose children were affected by fraudulent applications and the stress that it put the whole family under?

This thread makes me glad I put the 'good' town centre primary down (which DS now loves), rather than attempt to get into the outstanding primaries further out...all sounds very stressful

@SoupDragon

It's sad reading this thread knowing that those that posted saying they would, I hope I'm not a friend of yours.

I don't want to be friends with the sort of person who thinks admission fraud is fine.

Your friend is wrong and so are you to call this person your friend

She didn't call her a friend.

I'm aware another child loses a spot because of this but I still wouldn't be able to ruin it for a child where the parents have cheated the system

But you're OK with ruining it for the child who missed out. Odd morals there.

👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼

I did exactly the same a few years ago. My child might not have got in to our v popular local community school ten min walk away and I'd have had to drive Dc to school elsewhere.
They filled in the application using paperwork from prior to application window and had moved away.
They ended up at a good school local to where they lived instead.

@changingjobs

Wow I can't believe how many people would report something like this. Lots of people need to get a life...

Do you have children in an area where schools admissions to a good school are a huge deal? I suspect not

@Bromse

How did you find out?

It will teach the parents never to confide personal stuff to those in their 'social circle'.

I certainly wouldn't have reported them. Presumably there is more to being admitted to the school than where a child lives. Let us know if your child is admitted.

In my case everyone knew. It's a tight area where the parents know where others live. So if they aren't in the village people know. And the only criteria is distance which is normal

I hope the woman is on Mumsnet, reads this thread and recognises herself in the description. She will learn to be less 'loose lipped' in the company of people who she never dreamed would grass her up. Moral of this tale is: Trust No-one.

@Bromse

I hope the woman is on Mumsnet, reads this thread and recognises herself in the description. She will learn to be less 'loose lipped' in the company of people who she never dreamed would grass her up. Moral of this tale is: Trust No-one.

Or - “get some morals and don’t play the system in the first place”?

@BlackeyedSusan

I live on a council estate. I wouldn't report people for silly BS like about school admissions. I literally said that. I would only report something if I felt like it was necessary to help somebody vulnerable. Like abuse, neglect, things like that.

If somebody feels like throwing a brick through my window I can live with that for protecting a child from an abuser and would stand by that action. But if I reported somebody for anything it would be because In my mind it is worthwhile to protect somebody else (my civic duty and humanity) not so that somebody could definitely get their first choice school.

@Whatwouldscullydo

They own it - all they needed to do was physically live in the house the day they submitted the application and that would have been enough. We were renting during the application process and originally the deadline had been X but the council than changed it. I was so worried I went to the school head who rang the council in front of me and said as long as we were living in the rental the day we submitted the form it was ok. We just also needed to tell the council when we moved even though it was before school started

But you need to submit proof. Like a utility bill.

I think if no one was living there the bill would he suspiciously low amd if there were tenants it wouldn't be in their name.

If they let the flat as an air b'n'b, without going back and checking I think I remember the op saying they did, the bills would be in their name; likewise if they let inclusive of bills. However they may not have thought it out in such detail.

[quote Macademiamum]@BlackeyedSusan

I live on a council estate. I wouldn't report people for silly BS like about school admissions. I literally said that. I would only report something if I felt like it was necessary to help somebody vulnerable. Like abuse, neglect, things like that.

If somebody feels like throwing a brick through my window I can live with that for protecting a child from an abuser and would stand by that action. But if I reported somebody for anything it would be because In my mind it is worthwhile to protect somebody else (my civic duty and humanity) not so that somebody could definitely get their first choice school. [/quote]
I agree with that. I've always felt that you only snitch if you believe someone is in danger, otherwise you mind your own business, do not listen to or pass on gossip.

I am guessing that the 40% who voted YABU are themselves inclined to commit the same fraud if they can do and want to, which is worrying.

What’s worrying is how you extrapolate people’s binary responses.

So it's ok for people who are broke to take money out of the till to buy groceries? Or, if they work on a supermarket, just help themselves to what they need? Where is the line drawn? As so many posts above have shown admissions fraud results in children who should be attending their local school and making friends with children close by instead not getting a place and having attend school some distance away causing travel issues. It is not a victimless action. If is so selfish and self centred. Totally the opposite of the community mindedness the policy is trying to create.

It's interesting that so many people objecting to what the OP is doing use the language of the school playground - snitch, 'run to tell teacher', etc. When I was growing up decades ago children were expected to sort out their own problems and it wasn't just children, but also staff and parents who told children not to tell tales, and that didn't work out well. Bullying was rife, teachers and parents ignored it and lots of children ended up with lifelong problems as a result.

I hoped we'd moved beyond that and found a middle way where we try to encourage resilience and help children develop the social skills they need to sort out problems with other children, but do understand that they can tell an adult if they need to.

However, there are lots of depressing news stories about what happens to whistleblowers in the NHS and care sector and so on when they try to raise concerns of abuse, so adults are not setting a great example.

On this thread we see that lots of adults still think rules are for other people and that keeping in with friends is so important that no matter what they do, no matter how badly they behave and no matter how serious the consequences for other people, you don't call them out on it because then they might not like you any more and you'd be lonely or ostracised. Just a thought - is a friend like that actually a pleasant person to spend time with?

Nobody wants to live in a society where we can't trust each other and speak in confidence about problems, but surely we also want to live in a society where most people stick to the rules which are made for the benefit of all of us, or at any rate the majority.

It's very depressing to see so many saying a parent has the right to do anything at all to get an advantage for their child, and to hell with the consequences for other children, and how very dare one of the parents of those children object. How far does that go? And what sort of example does that set for the child?

I agree with that. I've always felt that you only snitch if you believe someone is in danger, otherwise you mind your own business, do not listen to or pass on gossip

So someone has to get physically hurt?

A family who end up struggling financially because the school they get means one person either has to spend all their wages on wrap around care or drop to part-time hours as its the only way they can get 2 kids to two different schools

What about the elderly grandparents who instead of enjoying retirement by finally getting to do whatbthey want to do after working their whole lives instead end up looking after grand kids every say to bail the family out as they didn't get their local school.

That's fine cos no one got physically hurt?

How selfish