To think that clothes are such poor quality now?

[Pythone]

(And other products too, really!)

I saw this tweet which summed it up: twitter.com/lingerie_addict/status/1494349028296900613?s=24

I've been thinking this for months - the difference between newer things and things I bought pre about 2017 is so stark. E.g. a nightdress from John Lewis which looked nice on the website, but then in real life the material is so thin and is only printed on one side, so the other side is just white with the design sort of showing through. Everything from mid-level shops seems to feel like the "cheapest of the cheap" from a decade or two ago, sometimes even like a fancy dress costume level. Thin fabric, weak construction, terrible finishing, strong chemical smells when you open the bag, and looking bad after a few washes. I bought a dressing gown from M&S and the pockets are just coming away at the sides even without being used.

In the mid-2000s I'd buy cheap things, often as part of a costume for a party or for a one-off outfit, and they'd just end up as part of my regular wardrobe for years. These days it's hard to imagine anything lasting that long, never mind things that weren't really expensive to start with.

Has anyone else noticed this?

@Acidburn That's really interesting, thanks! Especially the outcome that "So in the end we have shitty product and a shitty price". I think people who are simplifying it down to "people won't pay for quality" are maybe overlooking the shift that's happened quite recently.

I feel like 10 years ago (or even more recently than that), there were 4 categories on the high street:

• Higher end, high quality clothes, outside many people's usual reach, often sale purchases or an occasional investment (Toast, Brora, Jaeger)
• Mid-high (Phase Eight, Karen Millen)
• Average (M&S, Debenhams, Oasis, Warehouse, Topshop, White Stuff, Fat Face, Zara)
• Cheap (Primark, Boohoo, H&M)

But now, it feels like the two lowest tiers have changed. The prices in the "average" category are not cheap at all (£40-60 for a jumper), but the quality is at the level of "cheap", or in fact worse (I had things from 2000s Primark that lasted almost a decade).

So whereas you used to have the option of "super cheap fast fashion that falls apart" (even though it often didn't fall apart) or "spend a bit more for something decent", you now don't. I don't think the demand for decent quality average clothing has decreased, but the supply isn't there. But with higher quality clothes costing so much, what can the consumer do? (And as pointed out above, everyone buying secondhand doesn't work at a societal level.)

Yes, I remember M&S, Next, BHS, Richards, Wallis all being pretty good quality.

Most people dressed smartly for office jobs back in the 90s but the norm seems to be that most people look like a sack of shit. I was on Instagram earlier and saw a picture of new starters at a bank and they looked like they were dressed to go down the youth club (orange dungarees and purple hair?). Obviously, it doesn't stop them doing a decent job but it probably goes a long way to explain why the vast majority of retailers are not selling decent quality items because no one is demanding them.

I've also observed this with Habitat. It used to be aspirational (for me) as a level lower than Heals. Now it's Argos level.

Yes! I've been looking for leggings, just plain black ones, that aren't see-through, that's literally all I want - black leggings that aren't revealing! I haven't found them yet. I bought a more expensive pair of Calvin Klein leggings thinking they might do the trick - they were like tights, worse quality than Primark. 😒

(To be fair to M&S and Zara, their prices are lower than others in the "average" group)

I’ve kept loads of my clothes from the last 20 years... I sometimes wondered if I was hoarding & should Kondo? But, no! I have some really nice stuff, mostly from high street stores. The shopping experience was much nicer back then too, and I have fond memories of buying them all.
I used to buy wool suits, wool winter coats. Leather shoes & handbags. Silk dresses. Nice jewellery & accessories. Cotton summer dresses. Well-fitting jeans, tailored trousers. Cute skirts.
All from the likes of Topshop, Oasis, Warehouse, French Connection, GAP, Benetton. Never very expensive, but always good quality. Don’t care if I look a bit Trinny & Susannah wearing them, now...
Having said that, a lot of my pieces are classics like a Topshop parka that’s 20 years old. Still looks fresh! I watch out for 2000s clothes in the charity shops. Even TK Maxx isn’t great now, as the supply isn’t there.
Also, think that young ones look so badly put together nowadays. This must be why... We always had lovely outfits. And as others said, shopping was an enjoyable hobby, not an online trawl.

@Pythone you are spot on with your system, it definitely used to be like that!
I would also blame Philip Green and Arcadia for this mess, honestly. 5 years ago I worked for a company who supplied Primark and Dorothy Perkins simultaneously. We used the same fabrics, same buttons, same factories for both brands - but they were selling the garments at massively different prices. One of the reasons - margins. They wanted more money for their own pockets, and they were happy to compromise on quality.
At the moment I work for a company that supplies JD Williams. I design 70% of their dresses and tops actually. So whennwe start the design development- we look at companies like Massimo Dutti, Hush, Reiss. But they can never afford similar fabrics and silhouettes, so we start taking things off. Untill we reach the point where the affordable version looks nothing like what I designed originally.

Bought some CK socks recently, but they’re nothing like the ones I used to get. Same with bras & knickers!

Interestingly, this is not the case for menswear.

This is SO true. Women’s clothes are so expensive and so poor in comparison to men’s.

Even boys’ clothes v girls’ is the same. I bought a Sainsbury’s boys’ jumper last winter (for myself - I’m small!) and the quality is brilliant - so warm and cosy. The girls’ jumpers from Sainsbury’s are crap.

Was in Reiss last week & I couldn’t believe how bad the stuff was...
It was around the time of the recession, after 2008, that things went downhill. Agree about Philip Green. When Aurora went bust (Oasis / Warehouse) I remember them having a massive sale with all the good stuff “everything must go”. The stock that came in after that was shite... Same with Monsoon, and several other stores.

@Cognoscenti

I bought these - they are actually good quality!

www.amazon.co.uk/SIMIYA-Leggings-Comfort-Stretch-Trousers/dp/B07RWBFZZC?psc=1&pf_rd_p=8319ad83-d1f3-4704-8ec0-1d87c2c3d333&pf_rd_r=3NFQSY8Z0PGST1EXHY04&pd_rd_wg=vL2bN&pd_rd_i=B07RWBFZZC&ref_=pd_bap_m_rp_27_sc&pd_rd_w=G0xQe&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&pd_rd_r=e8ee5271-1f84-4676-af62-0ccb97cc1e26

I watch Classic Emmerdale and you can see the quality of clothing going downhill as the years roll along.

The interesting thing though, is that it is not the same with the quality of Mens clothing.

I shop for my friend at M&S, good quality, then go downstairs to the pile of tat that serves as womens fashion.

Am so frustrated at all the beautiful pieces I donated to the charity shop a few years ago.

This is precisely why the luxury brands (Valentino, D&G, Chanel etc) sell all that makeup on the ground floor of any department store. 90% of people who comes in will only buy makeup / perfumes as the most affordable thing. Without these products the luxury brands wouldn't be able to exist, as there are not enough people buying their clothes. Makeup / fragrances/ accessories/ clothes, that is the order.

And back then, there was no competition from supermarket clothes, either. I remember the day George at Asda opened, local to me.

We had Penneys (Primark) in Ireland, but it’s somewhere I only shopped as a teenager.

I agree. I have a few basic Primark t-shirts and leggings from about 2014. They were decent quality, especially for the price, and only just now starting to look a bit worn out. I went into Primark the other day hoping to find some replacements, but everything there now is so thin that it's see-through!

@Whydoesthecatalwaysdothat

Yes, I remember M&S, Next, BHS, Richards, Wallis all being pretty good quality.

Most people dressed smartly for office jobs back in the 90s but the norm seems to be that most people look like a sack of shit. I was on Instagram earlier and saw a picture of new starters at a bank and they looked like they were dressed to go down the youth club (orange dungarees and purple hair?). Obviously, it doesn't stop them doing a decent job but it probably goes a long way to explain why the vast majority of retailers are not selling decent quality items because no one is demanding them.

I would love to hear the explanation for how bankers having purple hair leads to M&S clothes falling apart

Yes - I'm from 1971 (birth) and gradually since then it's got worse year on year probably due to clothes being made cheaply and abroad.

I buy vintage or try to make my own clothes but I do buy stuff which is fast fashion.

Very much so I bought a cotton jumper from FatFace this winter so not "cheap". It looked lovely until I washed it (carefully following the care instructions).

One wash later it's now relegated to dog walking jumper. It's baggy, shapeless and the dye has faded noticeably.

Yes, it’s crap and I totally agree with the tweet - I am 27 so have missed out on the days when quality clothing was available! So I don’t have anything from 20 years ago that I can hang onto, all I have is crap.

[quote Acidburn]@Pythone you are spot on with your system, it definitely used to be like that!
I would also blame Philip Green and Arcadia for this mess, honestly. 5 years ago I worked for a company who supplied Primark and Dorothy Perkins simultaneously. We used the same fabrics, same buttons, same factories for both brands - but they were selling the garments at massively different prices. One of the reasons - margins. They wanted more money for their own pockets, and they were happy to compromise on quality.
At the moment I work for a company that supplies JD Williams. I design 70% of their dresses and tops actually. So whennwe start the design development- we look at companies like Massimo Dutti, Hush, Reiss. But they can never afford similar fabrics and silhouettes, so we start taking things off. Untill we reach the point where the affordable version looks nothing like what I designed originally.[/quote]
Your posts are fascinating, thank you.

It must be frustrating to see your ideas diluted!

I really miss Karen Millen. I know that BooHoo have reanimated the zombie that was once Karen Millen, but it’s nothing like what it was. I loved being able to get unusual, sharp clothes in striking colours and patterns with design details you usually only saw on really expensive clothes. I was happy to pay for it, too. I keep hoping that when the revolution against the covid tracksuit bottoms comes (and surely it cannot be far off!) there will be a groundswell of demand from women aged 30-60 who want lovely clothes again.

@Iamthewombat Me too! They used to have such interesting things that were unusual and looked great on.

@Acidburn It's so fascinating to hear about this stuff from someone who knows what's going on "from the other side"!

@Iamthewombat thank you so much, it is nice to know that my fashion degree is useful to someone
It is very sad indeed. That is why I am leaving fashion industry, I've accepted a job offer in public sector. During my 10 year career as a designer I have lost my job twice because of the reasons that had nothing to do with my personal performance, but because companies got bankrupt. Because they weren't selling. It's horrible when your mortgage depends on the status of current economy and consumer behaviour. And I completely agree with you regarding Karen Millen - I loved it too, and I was happy to pay a bit more for the look. It is definitely not the same anymore, purely because I can't go into the shop, because there is no shop. In fact - there is barely any shopping experience left as a whole. I remember first time coming to London in 2009, walking down the Oxford Street with my mum, trying dresses at Jane Norman... amazing times.

Where can you get good clothes these days?

I bought some from Brora - the dress was silk, lined and weighted which is great so I will definitely buy from them again but I would like more classic clothes that last