To think that clothes are such poor quality now?

[Pythone]

(And other products too, really!)

I saw this tweet which summed it up: twitter.com/lingerie_addict/status/1494349028296900613?s=24

I've been thinking this for months - the difference between newer things and things I bought pre about 2017 is so stark. E.g. a nightdress from John Lewis which looked nice on the website, but then in real life the material is so thin and is only printed on one side, so the other side is just white with the design sort of showing through. Everything from mid-level shops seems to feel like the "cheapest of the cheap" from a decade or two ago, sometimes even like a fancy dress costume level. Thin fabric, weak construction, terrible finishing, strong chemical smells when you open the bag, and looking bad after a few washes. I bought a dressing gown from M&S and the pockets are just coming away at the sides even without being used.

In the mid-2000s I'd buy cheap things, often as part of a costume for a party or for a one-off outfit, and they'd just end up as part of my regular wardrobe for years. These days it's hard to imagine anything lasting that long, never mind things that weren't really expensive to start with.

Has anyone else noticed this?

people want more clothes in general, so the retailers charge less per unit.

My grandmother would have spent a weeks salary on a coat, but she would have had one, maybe 2 coats in total and they had to last years.
So, yes, it is fast fashion in a way that is driving the poor quality but it is also that the idea of spending £400/500 on a coat would seem excessive to most people

Somebody made a similar point on a different thread recently, and I think that you are both correct. The other poster noted that people won’t go back to buying fewer clothes now, only a few times a year, because we’ve got used to a cornucopia of cheap clothes, shopping constantly and discarding stuff as soon as a micro trend goes away.

If tips for brands that make clothes to last welcome.

@TheTurn0fTheScrew maybe the answer for your M&S trousers is to find some good quality material in a toning colour and add some trim or turn-ups to the worn-down parts? ‘Upcycling’ is apparently a big thing these days.

I think there's a huge middle ground between buying a few pieces a year at great expense and regularly buying and discarding fast fashion. This middle ground existed for decades and seems to be vanishing.

Yanbu.

I am a charity shop volunteer and as well as the vintage stuff which really is usually excellent quality to have survived from the 50s/60s, the stuff from the 90s is so much better made too. And not the expensive stuff, the M&S price bracket stuff. I regularly pull things out of bags from defunct brands like Richards Shops, Etam, C&A, or brands like Miss Selfridge, Oasis.

The fabric is better, thicker, doesn't bag/bobble/stretch. The finishing and sewing is better, the zips/buttons are better quality. It's just... better.

Having said that I remember buying a pair of jeans in the sales somewhere like Top Shop in about 1991 when I was a student and thinking £15 was an enormous bargain. Primark sells jeans for half that price.

We are not - as a nation - prepared to pay for quality, so we get cheap rubbish.

@Iamthewombat The other big factor is that we have very different standards of hygiene/how often clothes should be washed now. If you wash everything after one wear in a washing machine it inevitably wears out quicker, but you also need more clothes. When had two ordinary outfits and one for best they weren't washing them as often as most people today would consider necessary.

I e largely given up buying clothes because of the awful quality.

Agreed. Poor quality of finish, shapeless and cheap-looking fabrics.

I am actually thinking of getting a sewing machine and learning to make my own stuff.

I agree OP though think it goes back a bit before 2017. Our high street clothing offering (and more recently online) is a national disgrace. I notice the difference straight away in France when I visit.

Sports Direct and Primark are the main offenders but by no means the only ones. It does not help that style has gone out of fashion too.

I buy some things from the men's section and I think some other things can be tailored down (an additional cost, at least for those like me, who can darn up holes and secure loose buttons, but not do alterations - but not a big one, really), but I'm not sure if that's for all types of clothing (perhaps if you get them a lot of extra fabric by going some sizes up).

The only one I can think of with a nice quality cotton now is Superdry, but they in turn have poor fit. Their size 8 hangs loose on me and they do nothing smaller. They had this summer some comfortable casual sleeveless tops (largely in bad colours: one was sackcloth shade! Solved with clothing dye), but their t-shirts are looser yet and hang weirdly around the hips. I bought two because I was in need of at-home no-bra t-shirts, but not otherwise satisfactory.

Apart from the omnipresent fabric issue, I also have a problem with fit and style. Everything is so cut down or cut out. I am perhaps more 'modest' than most: the scoop neck of most women's t-shirts are too revealing for my comfort. And all the cap sleeves! My enemy.

I am not from the UK and my impression is that my home country held out longer than the UK in the rush to synthetics, but it's all gone the same way now. I used to think Orsay quite nice, and I have a top from there that my mother originally bought some 15 years ago and it's still all right. There were some in a similar style a few years ago, but all stretchy polyester, and a nice elegant top this summer - 100% viscose! Who can stand it?

This middle ground existed for decades and seems to be vanishing.

Is that because it's a smaller market I wonder?

I also agree with the point that people want more newness. I'm happy to pay £200 plus for a classic black jumper that I keep for years but how viable is that for a business?

Just to add to the comments about menswear. Mostly my clothes are better quality than DW's. Tee shirts defo.
But there is cost cutting here. Shirt tails are cut back so they barely tuck in.
Boxers and underpants are briefer and very much less comfortable recently. I think M&S have employed a woman to plan the cut of men's pants. Someone who doesn't understand that we need support not just a wisp of covering.
I had to clear some old suits following the death of a 95 yr old. His overcoat was so heavy and thick material. Suits much thicker cloth.

We are not - as a nation - prepared to pay for quality, so we get cheap rubbish.

This summarises the UK on many different levels.

I nearly always buy knickers from M&S, but the ones I bought last year I swear have more holes than the 20 year old ones that are still in circulation.

I completely agree with you and it is such a shame. I’m finally at an age where I’m financially comfortable enough to want to buy really good quality clothes made from natural fabrics and I can’t bloody find any anywhere!

Buy largely new tu and m and s, seem ok, phase eight and monsoon are great, cost more, eBay preferred choice.
always buy pure cotton sheets , poly cotton standard for years, tho good sheets cost more than cheap ones.

I make pretty much all of my own clothes now. I got fed up of never being able to find stuff in shapes I liked without frills / embellishments etc.

I've a large chest that never fit in shirts without gaping or buying everything two sizes too big.

Now I can wear stuff in the fabrics/colours/shapes I wanted without frills or pockets added to the chest area making me look even frumpier and I can put nice big pockets in all my dresses, skirts and coats.

Fashion designer here. The reason for this is because everything has come up in price - fabrics, trims, shipping, labour, etc. But the retailers don't want to raise prices (or reduce margins), so they cut down on fabrics and design features. Viscose being replaced with polyester. Hems and sleeves becoming more narrow, to reduce fabric consumption. On top of that - retailers don't want to place big orders, say 1000 units of the same dress, they just want 300 units. But the factories don't want to entertain those quantities due to various technical reasons, so they charge premium for small orders- premium on cutting, sewing, printing, etc. So that adds even more pressure to pricing structure. So in the end we have shitty product and a shitty price. But people choose to buy tonnes of shitty clothes in Primark, Boohoo and PLT instead of buying less often, less items and better quality, so really we should blame ourselves.

@Acidburn

Fashion designer here. The reason for this is because everything has come up in price - fabrics, trims, shipping, labour, etc. But the retailers don't want to raise prices (or reduce margins), so they cut down on fabrics and design features. Viscose being replaced with polyester. Hems and sleeves becoming more narrow, to reduce fabric consumption. On top of that - retailers don't want to place big orders, say 1000 units of the same dress, they just want 300 units. But the factories don't want to entertain those quantities due to various technical reasons, so they charge premium for small orders- premium on cutting, sewing, printing, etc. So that adds even more pressure to pricing structure. So in the end we have shitty product and a shitty price. But people choose to buy tonnes of shitty clothes in Primark, Boohoo and PLT instead of buying less often, less items and better quality, so really we should blame ourselves.

This is so depressing

@Acidburn

Fashion designer here. The reason for this is because everything has come up in price - fabrics, trims, shipping, labour, etc. But the retailers don't want to raise prices (or reduce margins), so they cut down on fabrics and design features. Viscose being replaced with polyester. Hems and sleeves becoming more narrow, to reduce fabric consumption. On top of that - retailers don't want to place big orders, say 1000 units of the same dress, they just want 300 units. But the factories don't want to entertain those quantities due to various technical reasons, so they charge premium for small orders- premium on cutting, sewing, printing, etc. So that adds even more pressure to pricing structure. So in the end we have shitty product and a shitty price. But people choose to buy tonnes of shitty clothes in Primark, Boohoo and PLT instead of buying less often, less items and better quality, so really we should blame ourselves.

That is really interesting, thanks.

Are the smaller orders driven by a desire to have something different for sale every week?

@Lipsandlashes yes, it is indeed

@james83

Just to add to the comments about menswear. Mostly my clothes are better quality than DW's. Tee shirts defo. But there is cost cutting here. Shirt tails are cut back so they barely tuck in. Boxers and underpants are briefer and very much less comfortable recently. I think M&S have employed a woman to plan the cut of men's pants. Someone who doesn't understand that we need support not just a wisp of covering. I had to clear some old suits following the death of a 95 yr old. His overcoat was so heavy and thick material. Suits much thicker cloth.

Central heating meant the end of some really thick-wool suits and jackets. Perhaps rising fuel prices will change that.

@Iamthewombat exactly, they want to offer more newness, and would much rather trial new shapes and repeat them afterwards if the sales are good. The only way to make this model successful is manufacturing in Turkey / Romania / Morocco, these countries do smaller orders. But they obviously cost more than China, Vietnam and Bangladesh. But the latter ones will not entertain less than 1000 pieces orders. Also the majority of fabrics come from China, and China will not entertain less than 3000 meters fabric orders. Or they will - with a surcharge.

One word, YES!

I have nowhere to shop anymore, everywhere is boohooland, dreadful quality and I agree the quality has dropped elsewhere too. My only hope are the sales now.

Also so many ugly clothes everywhere. I seriously question who buys them. I'm mid-30s and can find hardly anything for myself and don't even know where to look anymore.

It's also related to the "shopping as a hobby" thing. When I was a teenager in the 80s, the shops had a winter range and a summer range. Sales in January at the end of the winter season, and June/July at the end of the summer season. The shops had the same stock through February-June, with perhaps the addition of some swimwear towards the end of the season.

We would go shopping at the weekend and see the same things week after week. Quite often it'd be "oooh I love that top in Chelsea Girl, if I save my pocket money all month I can get it". Because you knew that top would still be there.

But now it's constant churn, constant new stuff, keep them coming back in, give them something new to see each time they visit. Instant gratification, no saving up for something special, get it NOW. Wear it once, chuck it.

No easy answers though.