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Original poster

If DNA tests at birth were the norm...

74 replies

Ironytheoppositeofwrinkly · 17/02/2022 17:32

Saw a lively Facebook discussion about the ethics of this earlier, but it got me thinking. Do you personally know of any families that would be/would have been torn apart if this was just the done thing when a baby was born?

OP posts:
Original poster
Ironytheoppositeofwrinkly · 17/02/2022 18:18

@formalineadeline

Who would be paying for this to happen routinely at birth? And what would the public health objective be?
I'm not saying it should or even could happen, just pondering the ramifications if it was.
OP posts:
Original poster
Ironytheoppositeofwrinkly · 17/02/2022 18:20

@KupoNutCoffee

Not really aware of anyone this would affect if this was real life. And if it was standard practice...I don't think the biggest implication would be around torn-apart families and the discovering of cheating partners . It's not something I go looking for stats for, but I imagine many instances of revealing cheating and doubts of parentage come about before the babies even arrived.

In cases where there's no cheating, but the father remains unknown, I suppose it might be some relief to find out who it and be able to pursue them for support.

The biggest implications might be on those who know exactly who the Dad is, but don't want it known, or as @Girlmumdogmumboymum
mentions, nipping the "ah but I might not be the dad Hmm " shirkers in the bud.

And of course getting into the realms of overthinking...would there be a dna database of the country's men, or would you just have to offer up samples of potential candidates? If you knew it was the milkman, but didn't give his sample would the father just be "unknown" or would they just have your partner down as "acting dad" (assuming he stuck around after the shocking reveal).

Also...would anyone else be inexplicably worried about "failing" the test despite being 100% sure you haven't slept with anyone else...

Obviously that would happen, if it was routine, I'm sure errors would occur, samples mixed up etc. Just thought it would make an interesting discussion.
OP posts:
Crazykatie · 17/02/2022 18:23

It’s a really bad idea to do routine DNA it would cause a lot of stress and trouble at a vulnerable time

Chocolateis1ofyour5aday · 17/02/2022 18:31

Just no. Would people have DNA reveal parties, like gender reveal ones?

katseyes7 · 17/02/2022 18:34

I'm pretty sure my cousin's 'dad' ISN'T her dad. She doesn't look like her older brother and sister, either. They look like their dad.
I'm also pretty sure l know who her dad was. I don't know if she has any inkling, or not. She's doing her family tree, and l'm on tenterhooks in case til someone suggests (or gives) her a DNA kit.

Theyellowflamingo · 17/02/2022 18:37

I can imagine an increase in “honour killings”, domestic violence and abuse of women unfortunately. Not saying deceiving a child or a father about parentage is right, but sometimes I suspect that deception might be the lesser of two evils.

Plus you’d need a dna database to compare against and I don’t see that being a popular suggestion…

goodnightgrumble · 17/02/2022 18:37

I don't think you can go by looks alone. My friend was not sure of the paternity of her son and did a dna. The dad was the image of his son. However, it wasn't his son. I think you look for similarities!

goodnightgrumble · 17/02/2022 18:38

@WouldIwasShookspeared

If we were going to go down this road I'd want reforms to the system that meant men could not avoid paying for their children and debt would be chased until paid or the man died with not a penny to his name.
Perfectly said!
Footnote · 17/02/2022 18:40

I had my kids in a country where they do sequence all newborns, but not for parentage. They do it to pick up all identifiable genetic conditions as early as possible. (You don’t receive the data.) So it can’t be that unfeasible cost-wise. The NHS couldn’t afford it in its present state, of course.

Cheekypeach · 17/02/2022 18:43

@formalineadeline

Who would be paying for this to happen routinely at birth? And what would the public health objective be?
It’s a hypothetical question you’re taking this too literally.
Cheekypeach · 17/02/2022 18:50

@riodgh

NC for this as could be outing.

My own extended family would be torn apart if DNA tests were the done thing. My aunt had a child with her sisters husband. It's a family secret which everyone knows but my cousin doesn't. She is in her 30s and has always wondered why her 'dad' has rejected her. The man she believes is her dad asked for a DNA test which my aunt refused. The terrible thing is her uncle (her aunts husband) is in fact her dad and some of her cousins are in fact her siblings. I don't see them anymore as I can't look her in the face and keep the secret (at one point we used to be close). I feel awful but I don't want to be the one to literally tear the whole family and her world apart.

Omg. Does the sister/wife know?
Cheekypeach · 17/02/2022 18:51

@Crazykatie

It’s a really bad idea to do routine DNA it would cause a lot of stress and trouble at a vulnerable time
Oh come off it. You can’t all be up in arms at men not paying for their bio kids, but hap put for women to trick other men into paying for kids that aren’t theirs. They’re two halves of the same coin.
TrickyD · 17/02/2022 18:56

As the old saying puts it:

Mummy's baby
Daddy's maybe.

helpfulperson · 17/02/2022 19:01

I think it will happen fairly soon. With an increase in donor eggs and sperm, single sex families etc the split between 'family and 'genetics' needs to be recorded.

WonderfulYou · 17/02/2022 19:02

Yeah maybe this could be a good idea. A lot of fathers wouldn't throw around that they weren't sure of their child's parentage to shirk their responsibilities.

I agree it would be a good thing and in the best interests of the child rather than the parents.

Most men’s response to not stepping up is because they’re not sure if it’s their child.

It will also stop women lying about who the child’s dad is.

WhiteJellycat · 17/02/2022 19:07

My mum doubts her a few fraternities on her side of the family. But it's not really ethical to do this for everyone.

On a side track two of my kids have a genetic issue. I know testing for that is in the thousands and was very hard to get as no one wanted to fund it ( gp, local hospital so it funded via a London hospital. We dont live in London)

miltonj · 17/02/2022 19:11

There would be a huge increase in violence against women.

WonderfulYou · 17/02/2022 19:18

There would be a huge increase in violence against women.

How?

Essexgirlupnorth · 17/02/2022 19:31

@Footnote

I had my kids in a country where they do sequence all newborns, but not for parentage. They do it to pick up all identifiable genetic conditions as early as possible. (You don’t receive the data.) So it can’t be that unfeasible cost-wise. The NHS couldn’t afford it in its present state, of course.
The NHS is starting to offer this to very sick babies on NICU and kids on PICU. Even in cases where there are severe abnormalities prenatally. Samples from both parents are tested too but I don't know what happens if they find non paternity if it is reported back to the doctor or not.
RB68 · 17/02/2022 19:32

Its not just about family is it though - what about all the crims that would be in the system and traceable at the flick of a finger - that would save some money in terms of police time, court time and so on - could be worth it from that point of view. But of course individual freedoms are too precious for that

Amortentia · 17/02/2022 19:38

Why the hell would we chose to DNA test all children just to confirm paternity? Would you be looking for genetic conditions too? I have a child with a genetic condition and it’s not an easy to go through. This is a delicate process that often requires counselling. Checking to see if every mother is lying or confused about who the father is seems ridiculous.

balalake · 17/02/2022 19:54

@miltonj I think you are right that it would increase violence towards women, from husbands/partners who discovered the child was not theirs.

miltonj · 17/02/2022 19:55

@WonderfulYou

There would be a huge increase in violence against women.

How?

When men realise they are not the father of children they expected to be. Sometimes a women may have cheated on their partner. That does not excuse domestic violence but still leads to it. A women may also not disclose a pregnancy conceived by rape to their partner, especially if they are volatile. Can you imagine giving birth to that child and being exposed by a DNA test at birth.
MuchTooTired · 17/02/2022 19:55

I’m assuming both parents would have to be tested? My babies are ivf which we did privately abroad. I could quite easily have not said a word about it, but if there’s been a mix up at the clinic I might not be the biological mother of my children. It would make sense to test both parents if we’re running dna tests for fun.

Makes me sweaty and a tad panicky thinking about that. I don’t know with 100% certainty they’re biologically mine, nor DH’s, but I’m choosing to roll with they look like us so we’re probably ok. Besides, I adore them and don’t want to know if they’re not, they’re mine.

Summerfun54321 · 17/02/2022 20:00

I don’t know a single person who’s had a baby where they weren’t 100% sure who the father was. If you’re getting into this situation, isn’t better contraception the answer?

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