To ask why child benefits is means tested in England?Do you agree?

[ddshocker]

Just that really? Why is it means tested in the U.K.? Do you think this is fair considering the financial abuse some women can be suffer even if their dh is a high learner!
In Ireland it's not means tested at all and it is double the U.K. amount...why is the U.K. so adamant in making it unfair!?

What I think is unfair is that a couple earning two salaries totalling under £99k between then could still get it but a couple earning one salary of £55k doesn't because the government can't be arsed to administer it.

@Gonnagetgoing

I don't know much about CB myself but I recall in late 80s a couple I knew with 2 young children (under 5), she was a close friend - they didn't need it at all and she said she used her CB for her hair colour/cut appointments!

That's OK, I'm sure she spent well on her children. CB supplements the family income, it doesn't mean you have to go out on CB payment day and spend precisely £x per month on each child. You budget.

I remember saying (more than forty years ago), I used it for my fags and booze! I was only joking and I didn't drink at all then - I sincerely hope nobody took me seriously.

its not fair - because its not household income that is tested, only individuals. I expect its very common for a household to have more income with two relatively good earners than the threshold for CB and get full CB because each individual is below the threshold, but a single earner over that threshold gets nothing.

I'm mainly annoyed as that is our situation

@ddshocker

I agree 50k is not wealthy...comfortable yes but not wealthy Everything would probably be more than average in terms of their payments too... Earnings would be approx 3500 Mortgage 1000 Other bills 600 Car expenses x2 600 Food 550 That's 750 left for clothing, gifts, kids classes, health costs, emergencies, any savings they want to make...they could very well have nothing left at the end of the month.

Yes it’s terrible to only have £750 a month after all your bills are paid.

This example isn’t going to help your case OP.

@EveryAvenue

Although I think a system where the cut off point is slightly higher per child would be more helpful. Someone with one child on £50k will presumably have more extra money than someone with four children on 50k.

Surely the number of children/dependents is taken into consideration when claiming any benefit. If not, it should be.

@Lockdownbear

Don't know why people are comparing it to Ireland though. Kids in Ireland need to buy all their own school books where UKs are supplied by schools.

Most schools now have a book rental scheme, primary schools in deis or disadvantaged areas will have free or subsidised meals which continued when the schools were closed.

If you are on welfare payments or low income you can claim the back to school allowance 150€ per primary kid €275 per secondary kid to help with school uniforms shoes etc.

I am a single parent and the current system is very unfair. My overall household income is actually lower than the UK average as I have only one wage, but I lose it if I go over £50k whereas couples can earn up to 50k each and still retain it.

I don't feel on over 50k I necessarily need child benefit, but I would like the system to be fair to single parents and to take household income into consideration.

@SnipSnipMrBurgess thats good to hear that schools are able to rent books out, I have also heard of schools assisting with sales, to enable people to buy cheaper/ recoup some cost.
But it's something that bugs me on MN when people compare UK benefits and stuff to other countries without looking at the full picture, ie who's paying for what.

If it gets wrapped into household income then it will be absorbed into universal credit and disappear for many of the people who do get it.

It’s more honest if this is done tbf

@Lockdownbear I think you are very out of touch if you think schools supply all the books kids need.

We are high earners and I don’t think we should be able to receive it. There is such pressure on public finances at the moment.

Whenever something is means tested it is always hard to know where to draw the line. I am sure there are some who are only just over the threshold that rely on the money. Equally I know several people who claim it that are putting it into an account for their child when they’re 18. Yes, I know that they will be spending money on their child in the meantime, but for me, that is not a good use of public funds at a time when we are knocking £20 off universal credit.

I think it is dreadful that it’s based on one salary. So a single mum earning over £70k doesn’t get it, but two people earning 45 do…

@KosherDill

As a taxpayer i don't mind helping families in true financial insecurity but don't want to be paying my hard-earned wages so much more affluent households than mine get a cash handout merely for producing offspring.

I agree - if the threshold is £50k people receiving this are already more affluent than I am, which is annoying. It should only be paid to people in genuine need.

50K is not a high income for a four person household.
It's about 37 net for a single earner household or 41 net for a dual year earner household. Median net income for a household of that size is 41K according to the IFS so a 50K single earner household is below average.

ifs.org.uk/tools_and_resources/where_do_you_fit_in
I'm on my phone so can't sanity check their methodology back to the original ONS household data tables - anyone with time on their hands on a laptop feel free to check.
www.gov.uk/government/statistics/family-resources-survey-financial-year-2019-to-2020/family-resources-survey-financial-year-2019-to-2020#income-and-state-support-1

This impacts us. Whilst I do not want to pay more tax, I equally cannot see why on my salary I should get child allowance.

[quote Monopolyiscrap]@Lockdownbear I think you are very out of touch if you think schools supply all the books kids need.[/quote]
I've never heard of any kids in the UK having to purchase school books. Nor have I heard of schools renting them out.
Which schools or areas have you heard of it happening in?

I am more annoyed that everything here seems to be linked to the receipt of child benefit.

I have never claimed it as above the threshold, but then discovered that (a) the child maintenance service needs to see that you claim the child benefit in your name, otherwise they cannot ascertain automatically that you are eligible and you need to wait until it is your turn on the loooooong waiting list for "manual" processing (b) the school needs to see the child benefit letter to ensure the children live with you, the court order is apparently not sufficient.

It is bizarre how many admin things are linked to being in receipt of a non-universal benefit.

It should only be paid to people in genuine need.

Hmmm. And this is where the slippery slope downwards descends into the rabbit hole. Who determines the criteria/ thresholds for ‘need?’

A conversation that didn’t exist when it was universal.

I dunno, I’d be more worried about the mecanism that underpins this and how it could be further used in the context of ‘need’ rather than the current amounts and whether you deem someone is too affluent or not.

Of course it didn’t used to be means tested but universal for all regardless of income. It was far too expensive that way.

Governments do have to choose how to target their limited resources. I think that’s absolutely right.

The reason it’s administered as it is, is because of the huge costs of doing it based on household income. Taxes and NI etc are all based on individual income. There are no records of household income….so to gather than info would cost hugely and probably cost more than the benefit it could deliver. Admin costs are usually the reason why seemingly odd ways to collect or issue benefits are used.

It is frustrating to think a household with £99k split evenly between 2 earners gets it but the household with a single earner on £60k doesn’t. But the reason I give above is why. There is also an element if ‘rewarding’ people for working. If 2 adults work, they each get a tax free allowance, whereas with all income coming from 1 earner, even if a high earner there’s just the 1 allowance.

I agree - if the threshold is £50k people receiving this are already more affluent than I am, which is annoying. It should only be paid to people in genuine need now you know how I feel paying increased social care when asset rich elderly protect their kids inheritance-
do you object to schools?

My h earns just over threshold. I earn about 10k a year. I could really do with the CB as loads of his money is taxed away and pays for all bills/commute etc. seems mad a household can earn 99,999 and still get it.

It is really unfair - I had to stop work as I was really ill and wasn't in a situation where I could look after the children. DH earned over the threshold but other couples who were both working could have earned more and still claimed it. I was lucky as I had insurance to make up the shortfall but many other families in our situation would not have been so fortunate.

I also don't see why funds to benefit children are means assessed when a number of people I know on final salary pensions of £250k+ get winter fuel allowance and free public transport......

@stimpyyouidiot

My h earns just over threshold. I earn about 10k a year. I could really do with the CB as loads of his money is taxed away and pays for all bills/commute etc. seems mad a household can earn 99,999 and still get it.

You CAN claim it. He would have to pay some or all of us back via self assessment tax return.

@dementedpixie how does that help household income if it's being paid back in tax?

That's what I mean though. It's pretty pointless to claim when we basically have to pay it back. He's taxed enormously already.