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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask why child benefits is means tested in England?Do you agree?

306 replies

ddshocker · 17/02/2022 08:55

Just that really? Why is it means tested in the U.K.? Do you think this is fair considering the financial abuse some women can be suffer even if their dh is a high learner!
In Ireland it's not means tested at all and it is double the U.K. amount...why is the U.K. so adamant in making it unfair!?

OP posts:
Rosebel · 17/02/2022 11:00

The amount of CB is tiny anyway. Certainly not enough to look after your child with.
If you are earning 50k or whatever you really don't need the money. I know that because we live on half that amount.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 17/02/2022 11:02

The amount of CB is tiny anyway. Certainly not enough to look after your child with. If you are earning 50k or whatever you really don't need the money. I know that because we live on half that amount you think £140 for two children a month is tiny- you clearly dont need it if you think that.

Louisianagumbo · 17/02/2022 11:02

I remember I was on about 25,000, no benefits, and my friend had a huge family income over over 100,000. She was taking her children on holiday to places like Sri Lanka and Malaysia. I couldn't even afford a holiday but I was giving her money to basically fund those holidays. How is that fair?
I don't think anyone should get child benefit automatically. It should be assessed in your application for UC.

Fr0thandBubble · 17/02/2022 11:04

I am a high earner and am perfectly fine not getting it - I don’t want any handouts from the state.

Glitterygreen · 17/02/2022 11:04

@MissMaple82

High earners don't need benefits. It is perfectly fair.
But then a household with the same total income shouldn't get it either?
Sockpile · 17/02/2022 11:04

£140 a month for two children can be significant even to a higher earner. Even though DH pays it back I appreciate it when it lands in my bank account.

shouldistop · 17/02/2022 11:05

It should be assessed in your application for UC.

Most people don't apply for UC though

godmum56 · 17/02/2022 11:05

I think its a real problem.that once you get past "one cuts and the other chooses" its very difficult indeed to share a resource fairly in a way that everyone will agree is fair and that doesn't cost a ridiculous amount of resource to implement.

BertieBotts · 17/02/2022 11:05

It never used be means tested. It's an ideological thing. It also hasn't kept up with inflation, it's barely more now than it was when I was a teenager.

Live in Germany now and the child benefit is about 2.5x the UK amount and isn't means tested but is offset against the child tax allowance codes so if you earn more then you end up paying an extra amount in taxes which cancels it out.

Michellexxx · 17/02/2022 11:06

@MaggieMooh

But the non working parent could just get a job?

What an ableist comment! No, the non-working parent cannot just get a job. Maybe the mum (usually the non-working parent) is suffering significant health issues or disability from giving birth. Maybe the child has additional needs which would be too much for a carer to cope with so they can’t be put into group childcare. Maybe the working parent works long hours and has no flexibility to do any childcare at all, so the non-working parent is unable to get a job because they have to be available to cover all of the sick days and holidays and everything. Or maybe the non-working parent has poor employment prospects and min wage doesn’t cover the cost of childcare so they’d be worse off by working.

It’s not an ableist comment at all. You’re just taking it personally. There are other benefits available for those who can not work.

There would be no incentive for people to get jobs that pay around 17k.

It absolutely wouldn’t be fair for a household with a non working parent, through choice, to get child benefit and for one with both parents working but potentially earning less to get it.

Where is the incentive for both parents to work?

A single parent household is different, but it certainly shouldn’t be the case where a family with one income at 70k gets the benefit when no need for childcare etc and another with a 55k and 16k parent get the same but will need more childcare and both parents are out at work?

BobbinHood · 17/02/2022 11:06

@Louisianagumbo

I remember I was on about 25,000, no benefits, and my friend had a huge family income over over 100,000. She was taking her children on holiday to places like Sri Lanka and Malaysia. I couldn't even afford a holiday but I was giving her money to basically fund those holidays. How is that fair? I don't think anyone should get child benefit automatically. It should be assessed in your application for UC.
How were you giving her money?
JaninaDuszejko · 17/02/2022 11:06

It's easy enough to keep getting it on a high household income, the limit is £50K taxable income not £50K FT salary. So you can continue to get CB by either paying more into your pension or by reducing your hours both of which will reduce your taxable income.

It's common for taxes and benefits to be used to push people into 'desirable' (by the government) behaviour. The one salary per household model with an economically inactive adult in it is not considered desirable by the government and CB and higher rate tax are two of the ways those households are 'punished' for their behaviour. A household with two adults earning will have more flexibility to avoid the threshold for CB and higher rate tax.

Michellexxx · 17/02/2022 11:07

Also, if you’re a carer, then there are other benefits/help out there too. Maybe not exactly what is needed, but we’re not all going to get everything we need unless taxes go up even more. Which would mean even more families struggling.

apprenticewage · 17/02/2022 11:07

@Louisianagumbo but she was paying way more tax than you (to the tune of 33k!) , equally why should her tax bill fund you and your lifestyle choices?

apprenticewage · 17/02/2022 11:09

In fact @Louisianagumbo you should be thanking her as she was ACTUALLY contributing to the tax put...you were a negative contributor most probablyConfused

Michellexxx · 17/02/2022 11:10

@Louisianagumbo

I remember I was on about 25,000, no benefits, and my friend had a huge family income over over 100,000. She was taking her children on holiday to places like Sri Lanka and Malaysia. I couldn't even afford a holiday but I was giving her money to basically fund those holidays. How is that fair? I don't think anyone should get child benefit automatically. It should be assessed in your application for UC.
You weren’t giving her money though? You were paying taxes..if she had over 100k, then that means they were over the threshold anyway so didn’t get child benefit? And we’re probably paying a significant amount of tax..
JackieCollinshasnoauthority · 17/02/2022 11:12

Although I understand the points people make about higher earners not needing it, I think removing the universality of child benefit was designed as part of a wider package of cuts which contributed to the benefit bashing culture over the past decade or so.

This will come to fruition post covid in conversations about the NHS and whether wealthier people "need" free healthcare. It has a negative impact on the whole of society.

Bromse · 17/02/2022 11:12

I agree. There are some benefits which should not be means tested and this is one. When mine was young (many years ago), I found it very useful and latterly gave it to him to supplement his pocket money/allowance. It was paid up until his nineteenth birthday.

Life is hard for some people, they receive little enough from the government.

ellenpartridge · 17/02/2022 11:18

I think child benefit should be universal or at the very least the threshold should be raised. It's had the 50-60k taper since means testing was introduced 10 odd years ago and hasn't been adjusted at all during that time so is now excluding a lot more people than it originally was.

Whosthebestbabainalltheworld · 17/02/2022 11:19

It’s not means tested in Ireland but absolutely should be - and I say this as a high earner in Ireland with 3 children.

Musmerian · 17/02/2022 11:19

We earn just under £100k between us and it does seem unfair that we get it when a family with a lower income don’t. However I don’t think that having a threshold is a bad idea - it’s just how it’s been done.

MingeofDeath · 17/02/2022 11:19

I used to work at the Child Benefit Centre in Washington when a claim from a very famous footballer and his popstar- now- fashion -designer wife but in a claim for CB. The news went round the place like wildfire.

Bromse · 17/02/2022 11:23

@BobbinHood

Some of those who think £50k is such a huge family income might feel differently if in another 10 years they’re earning at that level and the threshold still hasn’t moved. More and more people are being brought into higher rate of tax, loss of child benefits etc who were never intended to be penalised. One of these days it might be you and you might not feel so “rich”.
I agree, it isn't huge, especially in some areas where houses, even the most humble, are expensive. £50 pa for a couple with children doesn't go far. I realise it sounds a lot to some people but all depends on your outgoings. In any case, it is hardly relevant, child benefit is for the benefit of the child.
Bromse · 17/02/2022 11:26

Louisianagumbo

I remember I was on about 25,000, no benefits, and my friend had a huge family income over over 100,000. She was taking her children on holiday to places like Sri Lanka and Malaysia. I couldn't even afford a holiday but I was giving her money to basically fund those holidays. How is that fair?
..............
Why were giving your friend money?

She doesn't sound like a friend if you were noseying into her income and resenting how much she had.

Lockdownbear · 17/02/2022 11:26

@MingeofDeath

I used to work at the Child Benefit Centre in Washington when a claim from a very famous footballer and his popstar- now- fashion -designer wife but in a claim for CB. The news went round the place like wildfire.
There's not that many couples like that and they were probably paying a fortune into the system too.

You means test then the peoplejust over the threshold suffer. Working poor is a big thing

They'll never raise the threshold as its a way of reducing the numbers getting the benefit.