To feel depressed and angry about Bankers Bonuses

[SapatSea]

Most people in the country are facing a cost of living crisis. We have had austerity for over a decade due to bailing out the banks and the "we're all in it together" mantra (lies). Although our GDP doesn't look too bad as a bald figure the GDP per person is falling year on year and the multiples of difference in salary/wealth between those at the bottom and top is ever widening. We are becoming a more and more divided society in terms of the have's and have's not.Most people are deeply worried about fuel bills and the future and then we have this
www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
barely reported by the MSM. It's obscene.

(I do realise that just a few months after the crash and bail out that bankers got bonuses again but this just really hurt reading it this morning)

@TheKeatingFive

So we shouldn't try and change anything because the 'clients' can't handle it and keeping them happy is more important than trying to create a fairer society

Well it's more important to the investment banking firms, yes. It's not their job to create a fairer society.

That's governments job. So back to everything I said about lobbying for electoral reform, taxation reform, etc etc.

Well clearly the investment banks aren't going to change anything.

It is indeed government's job, the only problem being that it is companies like the investment banks and the people who run them who control the government. Our current system of democracy is a carefully maintained sham that simply gives us the illusion of meaningful participation and control.

It is indeed government's job, the only problem being that it is companies like the investment banks and the people who run them who control the government.

That might be true of our current government, but other options are available. We need to scrutinise why people are still voting for the tories given everything that we know about them. Why is the opposition not capitalising on this?

The last crash was caused by banks and the government had to bail them out and subsequently we've had a decade of austerity which we are paying for. Its affected the poorest and vulnerable in society and it's just getting worse.

And the bankers deserve massive bonuses? Horrendous.

@TheKeatingFive

do you honestly believe that, in our system which, though clearly better than some, is seriously rigged in terms of preserving the status quo for the wealthiest in our society (and if anything is increasting the gap between rich and poor at an ever increasing rate) it is possible for anyone to affect meaningful change that will seriously negatively impact the existing ruling class?

I think more meaningful change than you are talking about here has been occasioned at various points during history. I'm not saying that's been easy, but it has happened.

One of the biggest issues for the U.K. is the lack of any effective or credible opposition to the tories. Labour have alienated the very people they're supposed to represent and have wasted their time on pointless trivialities. Uniting those who have been disadvantaged by the system would be the most effective first step in changing it.

We have also someone done this to ourselves by reviling politicians www.waterstones.com/book/why-we-get-the-wrong-politicians/isabel-hardman/9781782399759

Is a good book.
I would enter it, campaign etc if I could but unfortunately am a foreigner on a work visa.
Maybe in 10 years

In the meantime petitions, marches etc.

Btw the ‘every day’ man used to be a lot involved in governance. Unions, local council etc were people known on the community

These days everhone sticks in their own little bubble

@EishetChayil

I'm glad that people are finally starting to see that it's never been the poor who deserve criticism but the rich.

Oh for goodness sake! The rich subsidise the poor massively - those bonuses are taxed at 45% in income tax alone, and nearly everything they spend the remainder on is subject to 20% VAT, not to mention additional taxes like SDLT.

The vast majority of these bankers did extremely well at school, worked extremely hard and made huge sacrifices. My friends who work in corporate finance regularly do 16 hour days and often work weekends. You should be thankful that we have people like this in this country who support themselves and everyone else through the eye-watering tax they pay.

One of the biggest issues for the U.K. is the lack of any effective or credible opposition to the tories. Labour have alienated the very people they're supposed to represent and have wasted their time on pointless trivialities. Uniting those who have been disadvantaged by the system would be the most effective first step in changing it.

I agree, and even if Labour were suddenly to become magically electable (in the face of the opposition of the vast majority of the media and the deliberate stoking of internal divisions over the 'culture war') all they would do is re-arrange the deckchairs on the Titanic. They made no meaningful changes last time they were in power (and some truly awful ones) and I don't see them doing anything differently the next time (if there is one).

The only thing I can see even vaguely working is the 'progressive alliance' that has been proposed that gets elected with the single proposal to change the electoral system and then calls a new election under the new system. Even then I have doubts that it won't be watered down or co-opted in some way.

@shilohh you do realise that there are different people working in banking now? Many people now in the industry didn't create the crash (I'm thinking of graduates post 2010)

That might be true of our current government, but other options are available. We need to scrutinise why people are still voting for the tories given everything that we know about them. Why is the opposition not capitalising on this?

People are stupid/easily led?
I can only speak for the tory voters i know but the actively vote against their own and childrens interests - they complain about roads, housing, nhs, education, cuts to defence but then vote for the same party that has been in power for the last 12 years....

If people really do prefer a sensible former lawyer to a part time journalist, liar and philander, then tbh this country deserves all its getting.

@MongoOnlyPawnInGameOfLife I don't think the current Labour party should be compared to Tony Blair's version, he was really a traditional conservative, its just that the con's had gone very right wing, as they have even more under Johnson & his cabinet of brexitiers.

Unless you work in the i duatry

God these annual threads wind me up.

Unless you work in the industry (or are the partner of someone who works in the industry) you have no idea of the hours people have to work. When I worked in the City I was at a junior level, but was still pulling 12 hour days. The top earners (usually M&A) are often on call 24 hours a day. If you’re front office, there’s no job security; you can get fired just like that - no union. You’re called into an office whilst IT are at your desk unplugging your PC and an assistant is putting together a box with your belongings. Not allowed back in the office to say goodbye to your friends/colleagues or allowed back in to collect your belongings.

Base salaries are actually not a lot (comparatively speaking for the hours they put in); it’s all about the bonuses. It’s quite normal to be fired just before Christmas/bonus time so that they can give your bonus to someone who produces more. Your worth is your bonus; if they want to keep you and you do a good job and make loads of money for them then you get a big bonus. For that you work all the hours under the sun, have zero job security and pay a huge amount of tax .

For that you work all the hours under the sun, have zero job security and pay a huge amount of tax

Sounds a bit like being an Uber driver …

So much politics of envy

So many people “work in the industry” and don’t work loads of hours.

@downtonabbeyfan1234

So much politics of envy

So much politics of injustice. No envy here, just fury at the gap between the haves and have nots.

@Blossomtoes injustice in what way? why does the gap make you angry? sometimes people get paid a lot if they work hard and are good at their job. they should be rewarded.

Some silly comments on here, an Uber driver paying £500k+ in tax every year, I don’t think so. I also don’t expect an Uber driver to have the financial know how, education and decades of industry experience required to advise on deals the outcome of which affects thousands of jobs. Sheer ignorance about the world of high finance but happy to stamp feet and comment it’s not fair.

My DH only gets a bonus after

(1) bringing in his own basic salary
(2) meeting his personal targets i.e. generating and collecting fees of £5 million or £10 million (it varies year on year and this is not repeat roll on work this is new accounts every single time).

Then he gets a bonus and only then.

[quote downtonabbeyfan1234]@Blossomtoes injustice in what way? why does the gap make you angry? sometimes people get paid a lot if they work hard and are good at their job. they should be rewarded.[/quote]
and some people work hard and are good at their job but get paid minimum wage.

I'm sure most have no problem with people being rewarded for hard work - it's the massive discrepancy between the two that's the issue.

Why does the gap not make you angry? Can you not see the issue with our current system valuing people who move money around to make rich people even richer over jobs that actually benefit society as a whole?

The whole financial system is there simply to move money from the bottom to the top (and it's done it spectacularly well over the last 10 years). They will try and sell the lie of trickle down economics to try and keep the masses happy, but only idiots actually believe that any more.

[quote downtonabbeyfan1234]@Blossomtoes injustice in what way? why does the gap make you angry? sometimes people get paid a lot if they work hard and are good at their job. they should be rewarded.[/quote]
Take a long hard look at yourself.
I'd be ashamed to have typed that post.

@GreenLimes

Some silly comments on here, an Uber driver paying £500k+ in tax every year, I don’t think so. I also don’t expect an Uber driver to have the financial know how, education and decades of industry experience required to advise on deals the outcome of which affects thousands of jobs. Sheer ignorance about the world of high finance but happy to stamp feet and comment it’s not fair.

My DH only gets a bonus after

(1) bringing in his own basic salary
(2) meeting his personal targets i.e. generating and collecting fees of £5 million or £10 million (it varies year on year and this is not repeat roll on work this is new accounts every single time).

Then he gets a bonus and only then.

What do we need to know about the world of high finance that makes it right that someone earns tens or hundreds of times more than someone else who is also working hard and meeting their targets?

Can you come up with an answer that isn't simply based on creating more money for already wealthy people?

The financial system moves money from savers to borrowers to help finance projects in the real economy.

I'd take a look at Macquarie and their green investment bank. Actually helping to fund renewables. Obviously I feel bad for people who are struggling. I wish their pay rose. I care more about absolute poverty than inequality. But I don't see large bonuses as an issue (especially if they are performance related)

MongoOnlyPawnInGameLife saving jobs is specifically what my DH gets his performance related bonus for. He is a very moral person and always looks out for peoples salaries and jobs.

@MongoOnlyPawnInGameOfLife
The issue isn’t valuing Finance people over ‘everyone else’ MORE.
Because you’re not saying that doctors, nurses care workers get million pound bonuses, are you?
It’s not valuing these profession enough
And a lot of these are the squeezed middle.
So where’s the money to pay more going to come from?
More importantly, even if there are more taxes, will our government actually these people more instead of creaming it off?

[quote sanbeiji]@MongoOnlyPawnInGameOfLife
The issue isn’t valuing Finance people over ‘everyone else’ MORE.
Because you’re not saying that doctors, nurses care workers get million pound bonuses, are you?
It’s not valuing these profession enough
And a lot of these are the squeezed middle.
So where’s the money to pay more going to come from?
More importantly, even if there are more taxes, will our government actually these people more instead of creaming it off?[/quote]
Seems like an odd take. Surely if you are paying someone far more than someone else it's because you value them more (or rather the system does)?

Anyway, your point is right - there needs to be less of a gap between the two.

Even if you redistributed most of the salaries and bonuses of the top earners, it won't suddenly bring everyone to parity and I don't think there should be total parity - we need something to strive towards and at the moment that's being rewarded by a higher salary.

We do need to reduce the gap though, but currently it's going the other way at a ridiculous rate. The corrosive effect that it has (and yes, much of that is envy) will, I believe, eventually lead to a complete breakdown in the social contract that binds society together and that won't be pleasant for any of us.

Where is the ire directed at footballers etc?

The amount of Marxist nonsense being spouted on this thread is staggering.

If you think being a banker is so easy, and you wouldn't mind working regular 70-hour weeks, go be a banker yourself. No? Didn't think so.

Stop acting so unbelievably entitled to other people's hard-earned money.