Lawyers - thoughts please

[HuntyGirl]

I am a solicitor, I qualified late 2020. There have obviously been massive pay increases of recent and pay wars between firms. I am at a large regional firm and on £47k currently.
Firms such as Eversheds and DLA have just announced regional NQ salary will be going up to £62k and £65k respectively.

AIBU to have a discussion with my partner soon(ish) to say that when salaries increase in September, as a 2 year PQE by then I will expect c. £65k? That's taking into consideration that Eversheds and DLA are obviously international and have a higher turnover.

The current NQ salary at my firm is £46k. Please can I have some advice around how to broach this with my partner and what my salary expectations realistically should be. (I am regionally based so not taking the crazy London salaries into consideration!)

Thanks in advance

Are there any experienced family law solicitors here that wish to work in Ripon?!

@HuntyGirl sorry I’ve only just seen your post about PM’ing me. Feel free.

I haven’t read the full thread. But what I will say is in relation to the fact that you mentioned you’re thinking of trying to conceive soonish. The most important thing is that you’re working for a firm that you can realistically return to having had a baby. Some firms have amazing salaries in the early years and enhanced mat pay and say all the right things but then won’t actually offer you the flexibility you will need to return after mat leave unless you have a stay at home dad and don’t need to make any changes to your hours / working pattern. If you’re going to have children you have to play the long game and stick with a firm that is going to work in the longer term. This is what I have always prioritised and it is paying off now.

@Ossoduro

I haven’t read the full thread. But what I will say is in relation to the fact that you mentioned you’re thinking of trying to conceive soonish. The most important thing is that you’re working for a firm that you can realistically return to having had a baby. Some firms have amazing salaries in the early years and enhanced mat pay and say all the right things but then won’t actually offer you the flexibility you will need to return after mat leave unless you have a stay at home dad and don’t need to make any changes to your hours / working pattern. If you’re going to have children you have to play the long game and stick with a firm that is going to work in the longer term. This is what I have always prioritised and it is paying off now.

This really resonated with me, thank you. SIL thinks the same and DH does also. We would love for me to earn more and we could have more disposable income! But need to think about DC which is really important to us. My firm is so flexible and I see that with mums and dads. I think that's priceless.

Thanks for your comment!

Lots of good advice on the thread. I am an older London lawyer and my daughters are lawyers in London so we have had a lot of discussions about pay, jobs and my daughters have children (as did I work (full time) when I had small children too).

In my case thinking about the children meant putting my career first and arranging very good full time childcare. Everyone is difference and plenty of men would like to work part time whilst the wife works full time too particularly if the wife earns more.
Good luck. Babies and law do mix and the one thing teenagers want is not that their mother changed 10 nappies a day when they were 6 months rather than 3, it is more money to buy trainers etc.

@HuntyGirl - not suggesting that timing of ttc is anyones choice but your and your dh. Just highlighting that its very difficult to get on in law as a woman with children. It’s better than it was but still difficult. And it’s easier if you develop seniority first hence why many female lawyers wait till late 30s to have kids.

Of course some women do manage to have kids abs a successful legal career. But to be honest, ime most don’t. I’ve never worked in any firm where you can leave early or even on time regularly. The most is to drop a day and even then if you want to make partner generally that doesn’t fly.

I think it’s easier in a specialism but law, especially the better paying firms are still really family unfriendly. I think you are perhaps being a little naive to think you will get a big salary and family friendly hours.

Just wanted to share this article - www.elle.com/uk/life-and-culture/culture/a39075469/law-firm-fertility-officer-pregnancy-plans/

If you love your job and there is flexibility I would try to forget about the money. Regional law firms always pay their staff badly and you are unlikely to get the pay rise you want. This type of issue can eat away at you and strip all joy from your job. I’ve seen it happen to many of my colleagues and I try very hard not to let it do the same to me.

I’m trying to condense your wants:

• money equivalent to firms that expect longer hours than you currently do or want to do
• to not work longer hours than you currently do, as you don’t want the stress/ panic (30-45mins “extra” per day is already noteworthy to you. I put “extra” in “” because you work billable hours to meet client needs, which means doing what it takes, not clocking on/off in a waged job. The concept of half an hour “extra” would be laughed at in the DLAs and Eversheds of your field)
• to eventually work part time having secured this higher salary and taken maternity leave followed by another maternity leave
• to have a good balance between work, D.C., other things you do in your life, the sort of balance you have now as a child free 2 year PQE solicitor in the regions
• to continue to be well regarded, doing rewarding and satisfying work, loving the place where you work
• to achieve this around the age of 28, when you’re around 3 years PQE

I mean, if you don’t ask, you won’t get. But, yeah. Good luck to you!

I have met many, many women who tried to use private practice to their advantage, as a means to securing the lifestyle they wanted. Not one of them appreciated that lawyers serve their clients, not the other way round. This isn’t to say there isn’t a degree of exploitation of junior lawyers in some firms - there definitely can be. But for as long as there are junior lawyers who are prepared to run while you try to jog, I don’t rate your chances. Prove that you have something special to offer that justifies the extra pay. That would be a good start.

Have you considered negotiating an annual bonus directly related to billing above your target?

The only way you’d get anywhere near the pay rise you desire is proving to the partners that you being in the profit.

I worked for Eversheds and really liked it. I was in the London office in a specialist group and the work we did was great, people were all excellent. The firm was very much positioning itself as the value alternative to magic/silver circle and I think this just be what is behind these salary hikes as well. Hours were similar to a top City firm, probably a bit less than US firms, and I think will rise further.

Sorry, that should say that I think salaries will rise further.

Personally if I were OP I'd focus on my career for the next 2-3 years then once more established and or having secured a payrise I'd start TTC. You're only 27 so don't wish the next few years away. I was 8pqe when DC1 was born and had managed to get promoted to a level where I felt comfortable taking a year off and knowing my job was secure and i was not going to be replaced due to my skillset and specialist knowledge.

@givethatbabyaname - lol I agree. Saying you are working 45 mins extra a day is hardly showing commitment. I was at magic circle at 2 years pqe - I was expected (and did) do 60-70 hour weeks as a matter of course.

Perhaps I’m just old and cynical, but I have seen plenty of firms with all sorts of equality claims but when it comes to it, they are interested in the bottom line only (and not upsetting important male partners). Over the years I have seen a great many women pushed out and paid off especially after kids. When I trained, the majority of my fellow mc trainees were women. Only a small minority of them ever made partner unlike the men.

I think you need to stop thinking the grass is greener on the other side. You seem so focused on cold, hard cash and can’t see the sacrifices you’d have to make for it and think you know your firm’s business better than they do.

I hope you have appropriate coping strategies to deal with any personal or professional set backs as you seem really uptight.

Hi guys - just updating this thread.

I have secured a job with a city firm and start late summer.

Thanks for the helpful advice on this thread

First, find out the exact information about whether lawyers at Eversheds and DLA receive 62 thousand pounds. If so, then contact your manager. When you turn to the manager, you can say that I have reasons for dismissal from our company because other companies pay much more for the same work. And ask for a salary increase or write a leave of absence and go to another company, that's all. My friend used to work at Eversheds, but then he moved to a private company that deals with military cases -- ucmjdefense.com/navy-military-defense-lawyers-court-martial-attorneys.html. I hope my post will help you; if u have some questions, just PM me, man.