Page 2 | Do you have faith in the NHS after covid?

Thedogscollar · 14/02/2022 00:00

@Plumface

I mean, is it de pfeffels responsibility if an HCP doesn't admit a covid patient to a half full ward? Or tells them to stay at home when they can't breathe because as long as their lips aren't blue it's all a ok? And if there really is no one accountable for these decisions, or if it's just down to the PM, how safe are we?

That is truly shocking OP and I'm assuming this was investigated at a higher level. That patient should have been seen by a doctor and examined in person not triaged over the phone as that is how your post reads.

It has been a hellish couple of years and has resulted in many leaving the service for many reasons.

The NHS needs a major overhaul we are waist deep in managers who can't or won't help out when we are down to 8 midwives on our unit. Our speciality is in dire straits has been now for a few years. I'm still there because essentially I like my job when I can do it to my standards and I still care.

BulletTrain · 14/02/2022 00:03

It is funded. Unfortunately a lot of that money seems to go on paying people £75k to do jobs like "transformation management". I'm pretty sure they're mainly just managing each other.

EmmaH2022 · 14/02/2022 00:05

@Plumface

I mean, is it de pfeffels responsibility if an HCP doesn't admit a covid patient to a half full ward? Or tells them to stay at home when they can't breathe because as long as their lips aren't blue it's all a ok? And if there really is no one accountable for these decisions, or if it's just down to the PM, how safe are we?

I actually don't know where that "advice" came from. Two friends of mum's were turned away from hospitals when they had Covid and they were in a shocking state apparently.

This was very early on and it was unclear why they were turned away. They weren't told lack of beds. I think it might have been that there wasn't anything they could do, but they didn't want to say so, which led to one poor lady driving her mum to four more hospitals out of the county.

They all said no and then she died two days later with the GP having prescribed something to make her more comfortable.

I don't think we are ever "safe" and I dislike the culture of safetyism but I thought how mum's friends were treated was odd.

Thedogscollar · 14/02/2022 00:05

@Plumface

I'm not referring to your paperwork.

What are you referring to then?

mrsnoodle55 · 14/02/2022 00:09

Honestly, no. I work for the NHS and have done for 20 years. I am knowingly fortunate that I am able to view private healthcare for myself and kids as a necessary bill, akin to other necessary bills. In my opinion of course.

I totally understand that not all can do that. But I believe that all who can do must realise that, regardless of political views/moral stances/ ethical choices etc, the NHS can no longer sustain the demand from an ever ageing, chronically unwell, massively diversified catalogue of expanding health needs, in whatever form we pretend it can continue. It simply can’t. There isn’t enough money coming in, to pay for what’s going out. Of course there will be massive wastage etc, but that hasn’t changed for decades, so is unlikely to suddenly do so. But simply put the money coming in, can’t and never will match what is needed by the population. I can’t change that, we can’t change that. The only thing I can possibly change is how it affects me/my family/ the community I live in.

In my view now, those who can choose to seek healthcare else where are freeing up opportunities for those who can’t. It’s not ideal, it’s not ‘fair’, for either side. Those who can’t afford private feel marginalised and unimportant compared to those who can afford private, who equally feel aggrieved to be paying ‘twice’ in terms of ever increasing NI contributions that they then aren’t able to use. But, I see no viable alternative from anyone apart from wishful rhetoric and idealism, which in my cynical view is never going to happen.

Original poster

Plumface · 14/02/2022 00:13

Thanks @Thedogscollar yes it is shocking but it's not being investigated. The mother of the dying person, now dead, is in her late 70s and is caring for his fatherless daughter, so is a bit overwhelmed what with losing her son and all.

The "blue lips" chimed with me when she told me about it because it was exactly what I was told by the ambulance service 19 years previously when I phoned them after my newly discharged from hospital preemie son's breathing went funny. Unlike her I ignored them and took him to hospital by taxi so they could treat him. I wish and wish over again that she had done the same.

OP posts:

mummykel16 · 14/02/2022 00:16

@Plumface

Given that patients were discharged to nursing homes, and other patients not admitted despite hospitals not being full, also that GPs and dentists seemed to close down, but PR/marketing story professionals still got paid, are you still happy to entrust your care to the NHS?

YABU = I trust the NHS and it's great
YANBU = I don't trust the NHS

Wasn't exactly good before covid but it has since fell off a cliff, priorities are askew and the waste of money is horrendous, it amazes me that with the buying power of the NHS they routinely pay double or triple for items that they could get from Asda Tesco home bargains etc, I'm not talking lower quality either it's almost like they hunt for the max price.

Thedogscollar · 14/02/2022 00:22

@Plumface
I would be asking for an explanation of that triage conversation. Was the conversation with 111 or 999?
Whatever or whoever sounds like they require further training. It's not quite as simple as well your lips aren't blue so you will be ok. Truly shocking.

Original poster

Plumface · 14/02/2022 00:26

@EmmaH2022 God that's awful. Like your mum's friends, the hospital my now dead family member was trying to get into wasn't full, not at all. His mum turned inside out trying to rationalize it.

I also had a friend around that time who suddenly put out a message on fucking Facebook of all things, asking if any of us knew where a defibrillator was because he'd phoned an ambulance for his flatmate and the operator said he couldn't have one but told him to get to a defibrillator. We were all on there saying dude, I have no fucking idea where one is, but if she's that bad (she was, as it goes), just ring a fucking taxi and take her in yourself, so he did. I remember it all, all happening in real time, on my frigging Facebook, it was mental.

OP posts:

Original poster

Plumface · 14/02/2022 00:30

@Thedogscollar I'm not next of kin and the next of kin is overwhelmed by grief, bereavement and caring for her grandchild. I doubt anyone will ever look into it.

OP posts:

mummykel16 · 14/02/2022 00:33

And as for trust, partially.
Depends who you get to see, if anyone.

ThinWomansBrain · 14/02/2022 00:41

I have faith in the NHS - but sadly not the twats that are supposed to be running it.
How much did Hancock make selling the NHS crap PPE from his own company? ANd those of his mates and next door neighbourr? [whilst having an affair with his assistant]
And Johnson - so inept he recruits a communications director that describes him as "not a complete clown"?
If it was a scene in 'The Thick of It' it would be edited out as too far fetched.

VeganIsTheFuture · 14/02/2022 00:48

No faith at all. Most doctors and nurses I’ve had contact with are some of the most uncaring people I’ve ever met. It needs to be run more efficiently but even then more funding is probably needed. Glad I don’t use it.

Mossstitch · 14/02/2022 01:05

I'm no expert but worked in NHS for 20 years and I would say it's not underfunded so much, I don't think, but more that there is so much waste. Don't get me started on Matt Hancock's wonderful PPE which is so badly made that it often rips trying to get it on, you can throw 3 away before you manage to get one that is usable. So many matrons wandering around with managers with clipboards whose wages would be better funding extra HCAs so the elderly people could get to the toilet when needed which would save a fortune in the incontinence pads routinely put on everybody whether incontinent or not! And as @mummykel16 says the prices the NHS is charged for everything is astronomical. I accidentally saw a price list years ago and a simple sliced loaf was four times the price of the supermarket, when I questioned this I was told that they have a list of suppliers they have to order from so they cannot shop around. Somebody is making a lot of money out of this and it should be illegal.

RainbowMum11 · 14/02/2022 01:22

I trust the staff who are truly amazing.
I don't trust the government who should be support f the NHS though.

mummykel16 · 14/02/2022 01:26

It's mates rates in reverse.
Needs to be a massive investigation into who gets what contracts and why, trouble is any time the waste is mentioned you get cries of "but it's only duhduhduh percentage of the overall budget" which is only ever said as a percentage when it makes costs look less, an example of this would be some trusts paying over £6 a pack for A4 paper, which at the time was £2 in Asda, makes zero sense the NHS purchasing power is immense

Aquamarine1029 · 14/02/2022 01:32

I didn't have faith in the NHS before covid.

Balaboostah · 14/02/2022 01:37

i trust the NHS as a system. It works pretty well. There is no perfect health system and of course things need to be improved but the NHS does a good job in terms of efficiency and equity.
Right now though? No. It's too underfunded and this has been going on for years. The UK doesn't spend enough on health compared with peer countries.

sarahc336 · 14/02/2022 01:38

As an nhs worker,I find this opening post quite rude tbh. Thanks for the support, we work our arsed to the bone every day abd still it seems it's never good enough 😵‍💫

SweetPeaGirl · 14/02/2022 01:41

I don't trust the NHS or the people who work in it, and I haven't for ages - nothing to do with Covid. I have a chronic illness (Crohn's disease) that was misdiagnosed for 7 hellish years. In that time I was 'cared for' by some truly awful nurses and doctors. A great mix of nasty and incompetent, with a sprinkling of dangerous practice thrown in. And it wasn't a money issue either - if someone had actually listened to me and my symptoms instead of dismissing me, it would have cost the NHS thousands less in those 7 years.

I've had similar experiences with family members, in one case with tragic consequences.

I have dealt with some really good clinicians too, but they are out-numbered 4 or 5 to 1. So now I go in sceptical. I'm always super polite and try to be easy to deal with, but I trust nothing and no one - I always read up independently and then make a decision rather than just automatically following what I'm told.

And I'm glad I do. Only recently an obstetrician was pressuring me to take a medication which when I read further I found is contraindicated by something I already take.

FangsForTheMemory · 14/02/2022 01:47

Are you shilling for the Tories, OP? You sound as though you are. The NHS is plagued by chronic underfunding, and that is because the Tories want to replace it with a private health system that will make them and their friends money. Questions like your last, that suggest the problem is with the NHS per se, only serve to promote the Tory agenda.

Cbtb · 14/02/2022 01:53

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29

Pre pandemic figures here.

The nhs is not funded comparatively to similar countries. Fund it to the level of France or Germany and then we can compare it.

As a HCP I wouldn’t mind working in a French or German model - less patients and better funding. It will cost more per head tho.

I’d say the NHS is about as good as you will get for the current amount of money. There are always things that can be improved but you won’t get a French or German level service without French of German level funding

mummykel16 · 14/02/2022 01:55

Oh lord

AutomaticMoon · 14/02/2022 02:01

@TheRealityCheque

The NHS is an archaic institution that has not been fit for purpose for a couple of decades.

It's full of waste, burocracy and a stubborn refusal to modernise.

There's a good reason why the UK model is not followed anyway in the modern world.

This. Why don’t we learn from places like Germany/France? Much more efficient structures.

AutomaticMoon · 14/02/2022 02:05

@SweetPeaGirl Same, they’ve left me with a chronic UTI since age 29 (now 39) claiming it’s incurable Interstitial Cystitis when I actually needed long term antibiotics (Dr. Malone-Lee protocol) 😞