To think we shouldn't assume WFH is easier / cheaper?

[BoredtoTiers]

Having read quite a few pieces in the ongoing debate about return to the office, some of the arguments being put forward have been that WFH is necessarily easier / cheaper (often accompanied by a suggestion that it's totally fine to pay less to home workers).

Now obviously, employers can make a job office based and employees can either accept that or go elsewhere. This isn't really about that.

My own experience is that home working has been more expensive and longer term will be cost neutral at best. Easier? In some ways, but not in others.

Yet I see a lot of articles and posts in threads suggesting that of course it's easier / cheaper. Often this is based on things like the cost of a London commute. AIBU to think that this argument simply doesn't hold water for many who have shifted to home working during the pandemic?

@RoscoeConklin Apologies the above statement was for you

There are three good primary schools on my walk to work (in my direction of travel), with outstanding secondary schools in the opposite direction to me, secondary age walk alone.

@Bringsexyback

No you’ve misunderstood me my question is how do you make schoolwork who takes your children to school ? If you work in the city centre and you’re walking into work which school is your kid going to

When I lived in a city and walked to work the local schools were all a short walking distance away.

It's easier for me, and whilst I accept going into an office twice a week, I'd be happy not to. Saves me money as well.

I agree though OP that it should not be assumed to be easier for everyone, hence when asked I have said 'it works for me'.

So that is my question… which cities in the UK ?

Wherever you can make it happen - it happens everywhere. Not about to put where I live on here 😂.

Cheaper? Not really, my commute is 6 mile round trip usually
I'm still at my desk constantly for 9hrs
Easier? Definitely not, and I'm about to hand my notice in. Cried more at work over the past 2 years than I ever have before

@RoscoeConklin

Wherever you can make it happen - it happens everywhere. Not about to put where I live on here 😂.

I would find it pretty difficult to track you down just by the city name but okay …. you see I’ve lived in three cities in the UK and no it’s not been possible without sending the child to a school that look like a young offenders unit and probably was actually. Best I suppose you could live in the city centre and put the child on a bus to the suburbs but that does seem to somewhat defeat the object

My dh saves about £80 a week on train fare and £20 on not buying coffees. I am at home with heating on anyway so far cheaper for us.

Well - there are cities, and CITIES. It's probably not as easy to live with a large family and walk to your office in somewhere like Manchester Picadilly area or central Birmingham unless you live in a high-rise apartment. Bath, Cambridge, Durham, Chester - they're smaller with closer suburbs.

@BulletTrain

Well - there are cities, and CITIES. It's probably not as easy to live with a large family and walk to your office in somewhere like Manchester Picadilly area or central Birmingham unless you live in a high-rise apartment. Bath, Cambridge, Durham, Chester - they're smaller with closer suburbs.

You’ve name two out of the three cities that I’ve lived in and yeah it’s just absolutely impossible to walk into your office and for your child to be delivered to school and less as a say you want Barbwire on your Childs perimeter fences surrounding the schools as one in Manchester has. Generally speaking and I know this is a massive generalisation big cities are not child friendly and therefore walking to work would be impossible. And any big company PwC KPMG etc has the headquarters in big cities

When I changed jobs (pre pandemic) I switched to home working contractually. I was travelling for work periodically but having all the associated costs covered and getting flexi for my travel time.

Now with the current status quo, I would say It breaks evenish for me.

Wfh costs me:

• significant amounts in energy bills
• upgrades wifi to deal with cameras on Teams calls.
• more in food bescause I snack more🤣
• dog boarding costs when I travel as now its not for a working day but for 1/2 nights at a time.

What it saves me:

• time - i save about 1.25 hours in house to desk travel.
• less work clothes, I only have about two or three work outfits and its bloody great.
• round robins for birthdays etc. now we just rotate taking turns for a £15ish gift for one person off the group once a year which is far less money!
• less adhoc shops, takeaways on the way home etc - now I have to be bothered to leave the house of a cold evening after work.

Generally speaking and I know this is a massive generalisation big cities are not child friendly and therefore walking to work would be impossible. And any big company PwC KPMG etc has the headquarters in big cities

Well, yes. But lots and lots of people manage perfectly fine without working somewhere KPMG. I work in financial services and we are based in a small town. The office overlooks the high school playing fields.

There are lots of downsides to massive corporations. Location is one of them.

Financially I’m probably about the same, spend less on lunch. I didn’t have a long commute. The heating is on more.

Personally worse for my MH. I live alone and I need the interaction. Tiny interactions like a coffee break or being able to see someone face to face after a difficult or aggressive caller.

Going through job changes and I may end up wfh all the time, not sure if I’ll cope.

More expensive for me
I'm still using the same fuel as I still have dc in nursery near the office due to the fact I didn't/ don't know when we will go back
So then I have the added energy bills of working from home

I would find it pretty difficult to track you down just by the city name but okay

, it isn't just about you Bring. As someone who has appeared in the Daily Fail thanks to Mnet I name change frequently and am fairly vague on here.

Yes to what BulletTrain said. I left all that behind when making a conscious choice and it works perfectly.

Horrid, I feel similar to you, I really miss the interaction with people in the office, more some days than others. If I don't go to the gym sometimes I don't see anyone.

@Bringsexyback

All these people who walk into work, especially if they are parents given the city centre offices don’t typically have a school around the corner from them not even a private school, how exactly does this work? I wish they did in Australia I worked in Sydney CBD and I could get the train in with my kids and I to go one way and they to go the other it was amazing, absolutely unheard-of in the UK if you can point out where these places are I’m all ears.

There are offices in places other than city centres. My children's infants school was 5 minutes walk from home, and basically you had to walk past it to go anywhere. Their juniors did involve a 5 minute detour. And of course once your children get to Year 5 or thereabouts, you don't need to factor in taking them to school as long as school is close enough to home for them to get themselves there.

I've had to in increase my broadband package. I have had to buy a lot of extra kit that my work did not pay for or refund the cost.

I had a nice little bike ride. That's gone. I start earlier and finish later.

Most of all, my spare bedroom is now an office. I can never have my mother to stay again because I don't have anywhere for her to sleep.

Just think about that. If my mother needed a home I couldn't offer her one, without moving house. That, more than anything else, is why I fucking HATE working from home.

Hate it hate it hate it.

And that's going to be the rest of my working life.

Things I miss about the office:

Colleagues to bounce ideas around with. It just doesn't work on Teams calls in the same way.

Colleagues to just chat rubbish with at the start or end of the day or on breaks. I can go whole days without speaking to anyone.

Leaving work. So easy to end up doing silly hours when WFH as you can just log on and check something quickly and it turns into an hour of work.

A proper work environment. My desk is in the corner of my bedroom, when the DC are in school I work at the kitchen table. Neither of these are ideal.

Being closer to the gym and pool. It was a lot more motivating to go when they were nearby.

@JemimaMuddledUp

Things I miss about the office:

Colleagues to bounce ideas around with. It just doesn't work on Teams calls in the same way.

Colleagues to just chat rubbish with at the start or end of the day or on breaks. I can go whole days without speaking to anyone.

Leaving work. So easy to end up doing silly hours when WFH as you can just log on and check something quickly and it turns into an hour of work.

A proper work environment. My desk is in the corner of my bedroom, when the DC are in school I work at the kitchen table. Neither of these are ideal.

Being closer to the gym and pool. It was a lot more motivating to go when they were nearby.

I agree with a lot of that! One thing in particular is that while I'm lucky enough to have space for my own office, it's also the room where we used to use primarily for hobbies or to sit & read. I still use it for that but it's not quite the same psychologically with my 'workplace' in the corner of the room & any computer based downtime using the same desk / equipment.

I do miss a proper gym. I gave in and bought some decent home equipment, but again you've got to have somewhere to put it, so suffice to say the room I currently occupy doesn't look anything like the way I planned it out pre-pandemic

To be honest it depends what you do, where you work, how you get there, how that impacts childcare etc etc I used to pay transport of £250 a month and often ate out. I am saving Monday wfh. Workers should not be paid less though

It depends very much on the job and the home circumstances.

1. Person who lives near the office, no space to work at home, or they are a trainee or need to work in a team - they haven't much benefit in working at home.

1. Person with a long commute, nice house in the country, dedicated home office, senior enough to be in meetings all day/appreciate the focus time - they are likely to prefer WFH.

If you have children then you are juggling the convenience of being near school or nursery with the difficulty of getting space or quiet to work. Also depending on your pay grade/money saved in commuting, the extra heating/internet costs might be an impact.

I can see a tendency of managers/decision makers who are comfortably established in their quiet home offices, pushing WFH on a workforce many of whom will find it much harder. I've said several times over the last few weeks that senior people need to get into the office not for their own benefit but for the development and training of their teams.

@NotMeNoNo

It depends very much on the job and the home circumstances.

1. Person who lives near the office, no space to work at home, or they are a trainee or need to work in a team - they haven't much benefit in working at home.

1. Person with a long commute, nice house in the country, dedicated home office, senior enough to be in meetings all day/appreciate the focus time - they are likely to prefer WFH.

If you have children then you are juggling the convenience of being near school or nursery with the difficulty of getting space or quiet to work. Also depending on your pay grade/money saved in commuting, the extra heating/internet costs might be an impact.

I can see a tendency of managers/decision makers who are comfortably established in their quiet home offices, pushing WFH on a workforce many of whom will find it much harder. I've said several times over the last few weeks that senior people need to get into the office not for their own benefit but for the development and training of their teams.

Good point re trainees. I was taken to one side a few years ago for suggesting we should encourage (not insist) that grads, apprentices and new starts in general come into the office more than the bare minimum (we were hybrid working at that point) because it would benefit their development.

I'm established in both role and company so I can do my job easily from home. When I was younger I learned a hell of a lot simply by watching other people and adapting their methods. That's harder to do remotely.

Let's face it, most offices are in city centres, hence an expensive commute and all the parpahanalia that goes with that I. E expensive lunches, etc.

We've saved a FORTUNE since wfh. I haven't bought any new clothes for work, no money on train tickets, lunch out, coffees etc.

Plus I've had home office furniture provided by work too

I'm established in both role and company so I can do my job easily from home. When I was younger I learned a hell of a lot simply by watching other people and adapting their methods. That's harder to do remotely.

^

Totally agree with this. I started a new job during covid that is WFH and I've really struggled to integrate /learn the ropes on things that'd now be second nature if we were in the office.