To think we shouldn't assume WFH is easier / cheaper?

[BoredtoTiers]

Having read quite a few pieces in the ongoing debate about return to the office, some of the arguments being put forward have been that WFH is necessarily easier / cheaper (often accompanied by a suggestion that it's totally fine to pay less to home workers).

Now obviously, employers can make a job office based and employees can either accept that or go elsewhere. This isn't really about that.

My own experience is that home working has been more expensive and longer term will be cost neutral at best. Easier? In some ways, but not in others.

Yet I see a lot of articles and posts in threads suggesting that of course it's easier / cheaper. Often this is based on things like the cost of a London commute. AIBU to think that this argument simply doesn't hold water for many who have shifted to home working during the pandemic?

@Pyewhacket

I don't know anybody who is unhappy with WFH. My husband has saved a small fortune as well as not having to sit in traffic for 2 hours everyday !!!.

I know several people who live alone who have found it brutal. We had staff told to shield beg to come to work because the isolation was messing up their mental health.

Similarly several house sharers who had to work from their bedroom, video calls at the same time as 3 or 4 others stretching their broadband capabilities to the max. Many had trouble sleeping because their bedroom was now their office.

Nurses working from their kitchen tables talking to patients about their palliative treatment plans all day and then using the same table to eat with their families.

It hasn’t been a positive thing for lots and lots of people I know.

I couldn't do my job from home but if I could I would save an hour travel time (includes getting there early as I can't plan to arrive right on time in case of traffic problems) and could put my breaks to better use.

I think there are lots people who like the benefit of not sitting traffic etc but still struggle with WFH. They're more likely to talk about the benefits than admit they've found it isolating though. And even when they know it's not doing them any good they still prefer not to lose the benefits. It's a strange thing about human nature. We know we're happier when we're busy/active/productive, but we (almost) always vear towards what"s easier.

Wfh
Pros - no petrol costs , not buying lunch , no commute so saving time .
Cons - using more groceries as eating at home , using more coffee, milk as it’s free at work .
Using more electricity/ gas for laptop/ heat / kettle.
So I think it balances it out cost wise tbh for me anyway .

Heating costs and electricity on all day have driven up our costs here plus the outlay to have an office in the first place. I have saved money on childcare with older dc but doesn't outweigh cost of heating. Last year was particularly bad because we didn't get much of a summer and was cold for a long time.

All pros here.

Both DP and I saving roughly 400 on travel costs. We work in separate rooms, this is the new normal for us now as we will never be in an office FT again. The time saved on commuting has improved our quality of life and thats been worth more than the money saved in travel.

I think we need to seriously consider peoples lifestyles and what the hell is gone wrong with communities if people are begging to come back into the office…. this isn’t a corporate problem this isnt a workplace problem, this is a societal problem with the biggest gap in your life that causes your mental health problems is work.

I've worked at home freelance for the past 10 years ( Illustrator) and having also worked out of the home as an employee of various publishing companies prior to that I can tell you that WFH is not necessarily an easier option. But my opinion is based on my own specific work circumstances - I work at the dining table in an open plan dining/living room, so the main family room in a modest 3 bed semi. I don't have a studio/office space where I can retreat for peace and quiet while I work because there is nowhere else in the house that I can go. Working in a family space with other people around is quite honestly horrendous at times. I love my DH and DD dearly BUT I'm constantly being talked at and interrupted - always with something non urgent that could have waited until I'd finished work for the day, DH going on about some household DIY job or some ache or pain he's got, or DD wanting to show me her homework or a TikTok video or something she's built in Roblox - I can't tell them to leave me in peace as they are both the type to get very hurt and offended so I find myself pasting on a rictus smile and trying to listen patiently whilst counting the seconds until they leave me alone. Then I have to get back into my work headspace again. Or the TV is on in the background so I'm trying to concentrate but really struggling to. There have been times where I've got so frustrated at being constantly bothered by them that I start getting chest pains. I always feel like there's an expectation that since I'm at home I can squeeze in doing the laundry/clean the bathroom during my working day as well. I frequently work 7 days a week to keep on top of my workload, often working into the evenings too. There is no distinction between work time and time off. I dream endlessly of converting the garage into an office where I can lock myself away and focus on work in peace, but that is beyond what we can afford. And although I don't have to commute to work I do still have to take DD to secondary school across town, heavy traffic, so that sucks up an hour and half of my day every day anyway. I would give anything for a proper studio to work in efficiently with nobody bothering me endlessly, where I could also make it an inspiring space to work in visually instead of the uninspiring dining table, and also not have to worry about anybody else tripping over the wires to my laptop and drawing tablet.

It's been more expensive for me. The little I've saved on gas I've spent much more on heat and light.

Some colleagues have really saved because they have weighting and do not now need to pay commuting costs.

@Bringsexyback

I think we need to seriously consider peoples lifestyles and what the hell is gone wrong with communities if people are begging to come back into the office…. this isn’t a corporate problem this isnt a workplace problem, this is a societal problem with the biggest gap in your life that causes your mental health problems is work.

I don't agree. If people are still working full time at home they won't necessairly have the time or energy to socialise after work.

I am very fortunate that I like and genuinely get on with the people I work with. I have made some long term friends through work as has DH. One of them is a godparent to DD.

Just interracting with other people on a day to day basis, sharing an in joke, being able to cry on someone's shoulder if something has gone wrong at work, going for a lunchtime walk with some workmates etc can't really be replicated on Teams.

If you are an extrovert WFH can feel very isolating.

Can I just say I'm finding this thread extremely refreshing? I was first in the queue to go back into the office full time, and it seems that hardly anyone understands why I didn't love wfh.

My feeling (from RL people and this thread) is that the people who prefer wfh satisfy some or all of the following:

• they had a long commute
• they have a dedicated office space at home
• they are disabled (my hearing impaired DH loves being out of a noisy office as he can hear much better)
• they are established in their job
• they have a job that doesn't require a lot of collaboration
• they can save lots of on childcare (although I do wonder about the generation of primary school children that are now left to their own devices for 2-3 hours after school while their parents go back to work after doing the school run)

None of these apply to me, which is probably why I hate it.

@Bringsexyback

I think we need to seriously consider peoples lifestyles and what the hell is gone wrong with communities if people are begging to come back into the office…. this isn’t a corporate problem this isnt a workplace problem, this is a societal problem with the biggest gap in your life that causes your mental health problems is work.

The benefit of work is a 100 small interactions over the day. By the time you've spent 6 hours on the phone (as I often do) you don't necessarily want to socialise in the evening, and even if you do, you don't want to do it every day. Plus a succession of 5 minute chats is an entirely different sort of interaction to spending the whole evening with a friend/group of friends.

Though my main reason for begging to go back to the office is that my house is not suitable for 3 adults to work at home. We didn't buy the house with that in mind. Nothing to do with communities, just simple logistics. Many of my colleagues have built extensions or work sheds in the garden because their houses aren't suitable either. Which is great, if you can afford/have the space to do this.

@RedskyThisNight

Can I just say I'm finding this thread extremely refreshing? I was first in the queue to go back into the office full time, and it seems that hardly anyone understands why I didn't love wfh.

My feeling (from RL people and this thread) is that the people who prefer wfh satisfy some or all of the following:

• they had a long commute
• they have a dedicated office space at home
• they are disabled (my hearing impaired DH loves being out of a noisy office as he can hear much better)
• they are established in their job
• they have a job that doesn't require a lot of collaboration
• they can save lots of on childcare (although I do wonder about the generation of primary school children that are now left to their own devices for 2-3 hours after school while their parents go back to work after doing the school run)

None of these apply to me, which is probably why I hate it.

I agree with this. I am one of the fortunate ones. WFH has worked for me. I no longer have the Sunday night dread knowing I am going to have to get to work tomorrow morning.

£5000 a year saved in train fares and having dh at home and available for sharing the burden of lifts to football/brownies/swimming/ballet/cubs while trying to simultaneously feed them and not having to drag all three kids out when one of them needs to go somewhere…having him ‘home’ at 5.30 rather than 7.30 every evening has been a massive bonus for us.

My extrovert DH loves the fact that after a day at work I'm now up for the pub, meeting up with friends etc, because I haven't been worn out by socialising at work.

I used to hate calls and meetings at work too, but now I answer them happily and chase them down because I'm not talked out.

We had a pair of old cats who we left the heating on for on low through the day. They'd get respiratory infections easily in the cold so it was false economy to let them get sick. So heating costs not changed, except for the obvious.

We have fewer takeaways but go out more now.

The lifestyle is just better for us. I've switched to a permanent wfh job and am retraining into a wfh, flexible sector (IT), so I'm happy to stick with it. We're going to relocate somewhere cheaper and more rural, but also closer to DH's head office.

Me and my husband had saved a fortune. We are in Scotland. I usually get a rail season ticket at £120 a month, husband was doing a 50 mile drive each day so his fuel costs were astronomical as work combined with us going out in the car at the weekend needed at least two tanks of fuel as we live fairly rurally. I take my lunch in but would visit the shop for drinks etc and on the way to the station would nip into shops on my way. My husband bought his lunch most days so we have saved thousands.

It really does depend upon circumstances but it is costing me more.

I deliberately moved (pre pandemic) close enough to work to walk, so I have no commuting costs.

My office is smart casual, so basically the same clothes as I wear all the time, so no savings there.

I take leftovers for lunches in the office. As I don't need to be as organised when WFH, I don't plan as well, so probably end up eating more snack/treat foods WFH, so that ends up costing me more.

I have had to upgrade my internet to allow me to WFH, so that is costing me more.

I have the heating on a lot more, probably an extra £100 a month, pre price hike.

I've had to buy myself a new desk, lamp and chair, say £300. Not anything I actually want in the house, but it was causing too much pain otherwise.

Poss a small saving in childcare costs? Lucky that our afterschool clubs are cheap and ones she goes to for fun rather than for care, so perhaps one or two wraparound sessions a month I'm saving? (£5 per session)

@ShallWeTalkAboutBruno

Now both our offices have made WFH permanent we have to either buy a bigger house or one of us (me, as I earn less) quit. So yeah, that’s a big expense.

I assume you have no co-working options near you?

It's probably cost me more financially to wfh since before covid I walked to the office, took a packed lunch, and spent nothing during the day, didn't need to buy special clothes etc. At home it's cost me more gas/electricity wise. However I absolutely loathe office working and would happily suck up this cost or even take a pay cut to be able to continue wfh. Right now we're going to back to hybrid working but if we're forced back into the office full time I'll be looking for another job.

I completely agree with you, OP.

I have been permanent WFH for 8 years now. I can’t comment much on commuting cost savings as it’s been so long since I commuted that I have no idea what it would cost me now and what my utility bills would be if I worked at the company offices full-time.

Our company requirement for people who work permanently from home is that they have a dedicated room in the home that is not used for any other purpose. No working from the dining table or the sofa permitted. Also no children under 12 in the house during your working hours unless another adult is present. So when we bought our current house we had to buy a house with one extra room than we want/need for ourselves. That easily added $30k to the price tag. I would have done that anyway even if it wasn’t a company policy as I want to keep my work separate from my home as much as I can. I don’t want to sit on the sofa and see work stuff in the living room.

I see people saying the work-life balance is better because there is no time “lost” to traveling and I’m assuming they haven’t been doing this very long. Most people see this as a benefit in the early years of WFH. I miss the separation between the office and home. That was my time to wind down. Music on, no need to think about work and no need to think about home things. A nice gap between the two. Now I open my office door at the end of my work day and walk down the hall and I’m home. And straight into my next “role”. I do take a walk on the beach alone for the mental separation so no time is really saved.

It’s easier for people who are in a position to afford to dedicate a separate room in their home to work and can fit in all the necessary equipment to do the job effectively and healthily. I have a Varidesk, two screens, a dedicated phone line, a very good chair, foot rest, glass chair mat etc. But I know some people (in our company and others) who are not set up for WFH and had to do it due to shutdowns, etc are balancing a laptop on a dressing table, sitting on a stool or are at the dining table with other household members walking in and out all day distracting them. That’s definitely not good for any employee.

It's WAY cheaper for me. I never wanna go back to the office. (May return one day a week, but my employer isn't fussed.) I reckon I'm three grand a year better off.

I have not noticed much of an increase in my energy bills. Maybe £120 a year for both combined. Don't have the heating on much, as me and DH live in a cosy bungalow that stays warm. And we use energy saving everything in the house, so our electric bills are quite low.

All these people who walk into work, especially if they are parents given the city centre offices don’t typically have a school around the corner from them not even a private school, how exactly does this work? I wish they did in Australia I worked in Sydney CBD and I could get the train in with my kids and I to go one way and they to go the other it was amazing, absolutely unheard-of in the UK if you can point out where these places are I’m all ears.

Are a lot of companies sticking to wfh/ hybrid or are most getting employees back into the office now?
For those of who who wfh and like it, how do you structure your days? What hours do you work? Do you go for a walk/ exercise before work? Take a proper lunch break etc?

@Bringsexyback

All these people who walk into work, especially if they are parents given the city centre offices don’t typically have a school around the corner from them not even a private school, how exactly does this work? I wish they did in Australia I worked in Sydney CBD and I could get the train in with my kids and I to go one way and they to go the other it was amazing, absolutely unheard-of in the UK if you can point out where these places are I’m all ears.

What are you on about?

The UK has towns and cities all over the place with employment opportunities everywhere.

Lifestyle choice for me, I moved to a semi rural town where I knew I could get a decent job in my sector and walk to it after years of commuting in to central London.

DC walk to an outstanding secondary school - 8mins for them. 12 mins for me to work.

'These places' are everywhere.

No you’ve misunderstood me my question is how do you make schoolwork who takes your children to school ? If you work in the city centre and you’re walking into work which school is your kid going to