To be agog at this incentive to Work from office?

[GretaGip]

DS1's chum is 18 months through a Grad Role and has just secured another job with a different company

They are incentivised to work in the office 4 days a week by 15% of their salary, with a minimum of £10,000. It's not included in income for pensionable purposes.

AIBU to think this is not normal??

I'm feeling quite old and out of touch

@affairsofdragons

I think it's long overdue, tbh. You save not only on costs (travel, clothes) on going into an office, but on commute time as well. Time is money, and that's long been overlooked by many employers, hence the battle over carers/social workers/district nurses getting paid for travel time between clients.

Yeah this. ^

I used to work at a company in the late 1990s and early noughties, and we were sent on courses constantly... Whether we wanted to or not, and whether we were interested in the course/course content or not. The company had this 'Investor In People' award which meant they invested in training their staff to the highest standard.

They would often send us on a course which merely told us what we already knew, and/or had already been bloody doing for a few years! But they had to be seen to be 'investing' in training their staff, and had to spend the (rather large) budget they had!

The courses were - 3 out of 4 times - held in a city 50 miles away, where the company's head office was. To get there, (for 9am when it started,) I had to leave the house at 7am, coz I had to get the bus to the town centre, then the bus from there to the train station, (to get the train at 7.55am.) The train got me there at 8.45am, and I had to get a taxi the other end to the venue, which took around 10 to 15 minutes! A right ball-ache of a commute!

And I had to pay the childminder double time for that extra hour and a half, and luckily she was very, very good and agreed to have my 2 kids from 7am whenever I needed her to ... (She only had the kids normally from around 8.20am.)

There were THREE HOURS additional travel time on my days for these courses that they sent us on that sometimes took up two or three days a month. (as some of the courses were 2 or 3 day ones.) Some months it would only be one day, but some months it was more often.

They didn't give a shit that I had to add 3 hours onto my day, that I had to pay extra for the childminder, and that I had to leave the house at 7am (and get my DC up an hour and a half earlier than normal, at 5.45am!) and that I didn't get home til 7pm. Sometimes DH picked the kids up at 6pm if he got home on time, and sometimes, the kids wouldn't be picked up til 7pm.

My employer could not have cared less. 'If you can't do the job, then leave and let someone have it who CAN do it' my manager told me once when I complained. And one time, I got actually chastised and told off in front of everyone, because I had the AUDACITY to leave this 2 day course FIFTEEN MINUTES EARLY on the second day, so I could get an earlier train, (5.10pm,) and be back at my town by 6pm, and home by 6.25pm-ish instead of 7pm.

The course leader TOLD me to leave earlier, and I made the stupid mistake of dropping it out, when my manager asked me what time I got home last night. When I said 'just before half six,' he said 'how? If you got the 5.50pm train, you would not have got to the train station in this town til almost quarter to seven. So how did you get home BEFORE half six?'

I got fucking bollocked for it, 'for wasting the course time that they have paid for!' (15 minutes!) Yet they didn't care about the 3 hours extra travel time on my day that I didn't get paid for, OR the additional childminder expense, and inconvenience for her - AND me and my kids! Getting up at 5.45am, instead of 7.15am, and not getting home til 7pm!

Cunts.

So glad I don't work there anymore!!! There is no way in fucking HELL that I would tolerate this now...

Is it a law firm?

@BearOfEasttown

Sounds shit for you.

Those days are gone. People are leaving in droves and not tolerating this shit any more.

And I had to pay the childminder double time for that extra hour and a half...

Make that THREE hours, because there was the extra time on the END of the day too!

[quote D0lphine]@BearOfEasttown

Sounds shit for you.

Those days are gone. People are leaving in droves and not tolerating this shit any more. [/quote]
It was @D0lphine I have NO idea (now) why I tolerated it tbh.

@BearOfEasttown

I think employees, particularly youngsters, are realising their worth. They aren't staying in jobs long if it's not working for them and will happily jump until they find something they want to do.

I think the attitude shift is really interesting and defo a good thing for workers. Not so much for HR and business owners!

@Mundra

Someone told me this week that some of their employees were demanding a 4 day week for no downgrade of pay. I found that shocking.

Why? Surely if they are continuing to deliver the same volume and quality of work they should be paid the same. The company benefits from being to rent and heat less office space so it’s a win-win really.

[quote D0lphine]@BearOfEasttown

I think employees, particularly youngsters, are realising their worth. They aren't staying in jobs long if it's not working for them and will happily jump until they find something they want to do.

I think the attitude shift is really interesting and defo a good thing for workers. Not so much for HR and business owners![/quote]
Yeah too right @D0lphine My 2 DD (mid 20s,) would NEVER tolerate this now, and I am pretty sure the employer(s) would struggle to get away with it.

It affected my mental health tbh, and the job was a very stressful one with a very bossy, go-getting employer. In addition, I was a young woman in a world where women were expected to 'break through the glass ceiling' and were expected to 'have it all' and above all, complain about nothing, and accept any shit dished out at you, and just be grateful you had such a 'great' job with an employer who wanted you to 'make the best of yourself.'

I was OK at first (first 5 or 6 years or so,) but their attitude changed massively towards me, when I had my kids (less than 2 years apart.) They treated me differently, and I am pretty sure they hated having a 'mommy' working for them, who, (SHOCKER!) put her family before her job.

I left after 11 years there, and got something a lot more low-key, part time, less pay, less chance of a high flying corporate ladder career etc..... Leaving that company was the best day of my life! My kids were soooo much happier too when I went part time, and was there a LOT more of the time for them.

@Monopolyiscrap it's becoming v common. DP's new job pays a London salary, office twice a month max we live in the North West.
When I'm looking to move jobs that's probably what I'll do. I have no desire to live anywhere near London ever again.

This honestly warms my soul

When I was that age, there was a human poo outside the office doors and our incentive for work that day, was whatever team did the worst had to clean it up. So I'd say, in comparison, that's a brilliant incentive.

Employees being able to demand more pay and better conditions is a good thing, of course - and there is apparently some discussion going on about whether a four-day working week should become the norm (without major pay cuts). But I think it will take a while to stabilise - and that, if we are not careful, we will still end up with a great many necessary jobs continuing to be underpaid and undervalued, with more 'unskilled' people being coerced to do them by the threat of starvation (ie the Universal Credit bully-into-unsuitable-jobs approach).

I did see one fucking idiot suggesting that jobs like care work, for instance, should be some kind of workfare where people percieved as workshy and disobedient should be compelled to take them - which would, of course, be absolutely fucking lovely for the people in need of the care...

@Wreath21

Employees being able to demand more pay and better conditions is a good thing, of course - and there is apparently some discussion going on about whether a four-day working week should become the norm (without major pay cuts). But I think it will take a while to stabilise - and that, if we are not careful, we will still end up with a great many necessary jobs continuing to be underpaid and undervalued, with more 'unskilled' people being coerced to do them by the threat of starvation (ie the Universal Credit bully-into-unsuitable-jobs approach).

I did see one fucking idiot suggesting that jobs like care work, for instance, should be some kind of workfare where people percieved as workshy and disobedient should be compelled to take them - which would, of course, be absolutely fucking lovely for the people in need of the care...

I think I know the thread you mean. It was an impressively shit for brains take.

@Wreath21

Employees being able to demand more pay and better conditions is a good thing, of course - and there is apparently some discussion going on about whether a four-day working week should become the norm (without major pay cuts). But I think it will take a while to stabilise - and that, if we are not careful, we will still end up with a great many necessary jobs continuing to be underpaid and undervalued, with more 'unskilled' people being coerced to do them by the threat of starvation (ie the Universal Credit bully-into-unsuitable-jobs approach).

I did see one fucking idiot suggesting that jobs like care work, for instance, should be some kind of workfare where people percieved as workshy and disobedient should be compelled to take them - which would, of course, be absolutely fucking lovely for the people in need of the care...

I'm one of the 'privileged' ones and the gulf is mindblowing. Young people with the right skillset walking into 60-70K jobs. In the meantime care workers, nurses etc underpaid. The fact that 'some' people, who are privileged, are getting better terms makes no sense when the other half of the country is being worked to death for little pay.

Qualified nurses are okay paid. HCAs are appallingly paid.

WFH is very bad for me. In the opposite scenario, if my organisation paid lots extra to induce me to work from home I still wouldn't.

What industry IS this?! I really want to be able to tell my nephews what business niche to aim for so they don't make my mistake and spend their lives working for the public sector....(I don't actually think it's a mistake, but it galls me beyond words that people like professional pixel-mover-arounder-finance-bods and marketing "influencers" get paid so far over the odds it's obscene while the people who actually prop up society get paid peanuts and derided by the national media and our so-called "leaders" into the bargain.)

@sanbeiji
@Monopolyiscrap

Why would you pay people the same amount to do 80% of their usual work? The pay is above industry average already btw. These are people who flit from job to job, they don't seem to stay anywhere longer than 12mo. If they were amazingly committed and dynamic, perhaps you'd be motivated to meet them halfway? But as it is, they'll just go elsewhere in 6mo time anyway. It would be perfectly easy to replace them now with people that work 5 days.

Golden Hello payments are not unknown for tip top workplace performing grads, & that was before Covid & mandatory wfh.

The grad employment market is cyclical.
Right now, the market is distorted by Covid recovery & companies restructuring as they build back.

It’ll pass.

@Player20868

What industry IS this?! I really want to be able to tell my nephews what business niche to aim for so they don't make my mistake and spend their lives working for the public sector....(I don't actually think it's a mistake, but it galls me beyond words that people like professional pixel-mover-arounder-finance-bods and marketing "influencers" get paid so far over the odds it's obscene while the people who actually prop up society get paid peanuts and derided by the national media and our so-called "leaders" into the bargain.)

Software engineering, then move into a specific niche like cloud/infrastructure or security consulting, Pays loads

@SarahBellam No- they want to work 4 days for the salary they're on now for 5 days. They already WFH whenever they want.

‘ The company benefits from being to rent and heat less office space so it’s a win-win really.’

Fixed costs won’t reduce any time soon. Contacts for floor space already in place, empty rooms still need to be heated.

Is your office unpleasantly cold or hot on Monday ? Are the loos short of water in the pan on Monday? If not, that is because the heating/air con is on over the weekend, basic maintenance & repairs are done.

It’s not that simple.

@RedskyThisNight

This is just a version of London weighting I guess?

That's my opinion as well. Surely it's to offset commuting etc? I think it's fine.

A colleague of mine hasn't been asked to return to the office. It doesn't bother me as her role can be done from home, she loves wfh and I hate it (one day a week is fine) but I am jealous that she's saving so much time and money on commuting!

[quote Mundra]@sanbeiji
@Monopolyiscrap

Why would you pay people the same amount to do 80% of their usual work? The pay is above industry average already btw. These are people who flit from job to job, they don't seem to stay anywhere longer than 12mo. If they were amazingly committed and dynamic, perhaps you'd be motivated to meet them halfway? But as it is, they'll just go elsewhere in 6mo time anyway. It would be perfectly easy to replace them now with people that work 5 days.[/quote]
Good on them for knowing their worth.
If they're that easy to replace, then why were you happy to hire them despite changing jobs so often? Especially if the pay's above industry average. Surely you had better candidates to choose from if this was a red flag for you.

I don't know what industry you're in. But in mine, a year's a long time. Enough to gain qualifications, or specific experience that's highly valued in the open market. Companies can't often match the salary (it's easier to pay a new hire 10K more, than to give an existing one the same pay rise). So people leave.
I know graduates who have gone from 25-75K in 3 years. In London especially this isn't uncommon.

@Player20868

What industry IS this?! I really want to be able to tell my nephews what business niche to aim for so they don't make my mistake and spend their lives working for the public sector....(I don't actually think it's a mistake, but it galls me beyond words that people like professional pixel-mover-arounder-finance-bods and marketing "influencers" get paid so far over the odds it's obscene while the people who actually prop up society get paid peanuts and derided by the national media and our so-called "leaders" into the bargain.)

In my son's case, he's graduating with a degree in accounting (that's a thing in the US) and going to work in the tax department at a big four accounting firm. It is not an easy degree and demand for accounting graduates exceeds the supply.