Can I use the playground of a council estate if we don't live there?

[Mummy1608]

Quick question...

I live right outside a really big council estate. (Eg I walk through it everyday as a shortcut to my local train station, that's how close I am and how big it is.) It's got a lovely playground in it with lots of cool climbing bits etc. Can I go there with my DD or do you think it's frowned on if I don't live there, because it's meant to be for residents? I can't find anywhere whether this isn't allowed, but it might be technically allowed but still frowned on? My next nearest playground is much smaller (although always empty) and a 15 min walk away.

Tldr can I take my dd to the council estate playground?

I posted an excerpt from a document regarding an estate In Islington.

No I’m not going to post about anywhere I have direct experience of as most people wouldn’t post their address current or former on here.

I’m amazed that people are struggling with the concept of residents only areas and facilities in social housing. Is it really that hard to fathom?

@HadaVerde I think the problem is you don’t quite understand how public open space works. When a housing estate is built they have a legal requirement to provide open space with provision for play - a LAP, LEAP or NEAP (usually something like 7m per resident specifically for play areas). If it’s small or already sufficient provision they can just give the local parish/town council money to spend in the area.

The open space isn’t exclusively for the residents - it is legally required to be ‘public open space’. The majority of the time, the play areas are adopted by a council - be it parish, town or county. Some may not be adopted and handed to a management company, it is still legally public open space though. Public open space encompasses lots of things from verges to play areas. It doesn’t matter if it’s in a ‘park’ or ‘estate’, it’s all public open space.

I manage 100 acres of public open space which currently has 30 play areas, I have another 10 coming in the next year being built on new developments. Lots of them are within housing estates (new build estates are always mixed social and private housing anyway now) but are free for all to use by definition of being public open space.

@Wafflefudge

Maybe Hada is picturing a private park different to what everyone else is picturing. It would be good if they could post a photo of the one they had in mind. I'm picturing a play park that is located in a large estate that you can drive through but I think they might be picturing a park enclosed by flats all around.

Waffle yes I am talking about the second description you wrote-an enclosed estate. Same as the sort the op described in their posts.

[quote elbea]**@HadaVerde I think the problem is you don’t quite understand how public open space works. When a housing estate is built they have a legal requirement to provide open space with provision for play - a LAP, LEAP or NEAP (usually something like 7m per resident specifically for play areas). If it’s small or already sufficient provision they can just give the local parish/town council money to spend in the area.

The open space isn’t exclusively for the residents - it is legally required to be ‘public open space’. The majority of the time, the play areas are adopted by a council - be it parish, town or county. Some may not be adopted and handed to a management company, it is still legally public open space though. Public open space encompasses lots of things from verges to play areas. It doesn’t matter if it’s in a ‘park’ or ‘estate’, it’s all public open space.

I manage 100 acres of public open space which currently has 30 play areas, I have another 10 coming in the next year being built on new developments. Lots of them are within housing estates (new build estates are always mixed social and private housing anyway now) but are free for all to use by definition of being public open space.[/quote]
Over to you @HadaVerde

Keep the oiky kids away.
www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/mar/25/too-poor-to-play-children-in-social-housing-blocked-from-communal-playground

[quote elbea]@HadaVerde I think the problem is you don’t quite understand how public open space works. When a housing estate is built they have a legal requirement to provide open space with provision for play - a LAP, LEAP or NEAP (usually something like 7m per resident specifically for play areas). If it’s small or already sufficient provision they can just give the local parish/town council money to spend in the area.

The open space isn’t exclusively for the residents - it is legally required to be ‘public open space’. The majority of the time, the play areas are adopted by a council - be it parish, town or county. Some may not be adopted and handed to a management company, it is still legally public open space though. Public open space encompasses lots of things from verges to play areas. It doesn’t matter if it’s in a ‘park’ or ‘estate’, it’s all public open space.

I manage 100 acres of public open space which currently has 30 play areas, I have another 10 coming in the next year being built on new developments. Lots of them are within housing estates (new build estates are always mixed social and private housing anyway now) but are free for all to use by definition of being public open space.[/quote]
I understand what you are talking about and am not disagreeing with any of it.

I am saying that there are residents only communal facilities within social housing that include play areas regardless of all you have written above.

The only 'inclosed' estates I know of are those posh gated communities or sometimes static caravan communities. I've never come across a gated council estate. I know some blocks of flats have communal open areas which may or may not have play equipment but these are usually only able to be accessed by the residents - ie there is a fence and gate. If the OP could access the playarea then it wasn't a residents only area. It would have been a public area.

This is the playground at the end of my social housing road in the middle of a council estate
www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6500473,1.274198,3a,75y,182.06h,84.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBl3IVm737SycYwodwTWUfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
It's obviously free for anybody to use.

I'm picturing a play park that is located in a large estate that you can drive through but I think they might be picturing a park enclosed by flats all around.

Most estates you can’t really drive through as then they wouldn’t be classed as estates surely?
They would just be houses on a road.

I’m assuming the OP means the park is surrounded by the council houses which is why she wasn’t sure whether she can use it or not as usually these have a sign on saying for residents only.

I think some posters are thinking it’s a normal public park that you walk past and everyone goes to.

@HadaVerde

If an enclosed high rise has security system then thats going to be the only reason not to use it - because you haven't got resident access. This is when the residents only want to deal with the objectionable people living alongside them and not the whole general public aswell because that's asking a bit much what with the not having a garden thing anyway. But if any old nutter can walk through like the OP then they are free to inhale out of those pretty balloons under the slide like anyone.

@Marmm

🤣 ok

Seriously they are..

They are in the west midlands whether you're from a council estate on not

I am saying that there are residents only communal facilities within social housing that include play areas

This is true (there is one near me in Hackney) but these small play areas and courtyards are only accessible from inside the flats, which are obviously secure. There is no public entrance, and no possibility that they will be used by the public.

This can not be used to infer that proper playgrounds easily accessible within a council estate may only be used by residents.

@Bitofachinwag

So if you call a playground a park what do you call an actual park ( green space with trees etc)

Surely housing estates merge into eachother and are not surrounded by moats or anything. It's not always clear if a playground belongs to " the council estate" or ",,the 1980s Bovis Homes estate".
Of course you can use any playground.

That's a 'park' too just a different kind of one

Can’t wait to see a pic of the coin box,

WonderfulYou of course you can drive through council estates. Here is a Google Earth picture of a large post ww2 council estate in South East London. Do you think 'estate' means blocks of flats?

@Legoisthebest

WonderfulYou of course you can drive through council estates. Here is a Google Earth picture of a large post ww2 council estate in South East London. Do you think 'estate' means blocks of flats?

That was built between ww1 and ww2. It’s classed more as an area than an estate tbh.

Much of it is privately owned anyway.

@WonderfulYou OK maybe I didn't describe it properly. I just mean I think potentially that some people are picturing different scenarios to each other. I guess we are all picturing the council estates they have experience of.
Where I live they are mainly a series of cul de sacs basically and then in amongst the cul de sacs will be a public park, all the houses around the park will be council houses whether council owned or have since been bought but they don't actually enter directly into the park if that makes sense.

@HadaVerde

See, more and more posters writing under the incorrect assumption that the op was talking about a public park.

It’s a play area for residents of a social housing estate, within the boundaries of the estate. That’s really not the same thing as a park.

Why is that so difficult to grasp.

How do you know that it is what you think it is? As I said earlier I Googled the play area (not a park in your book as there is no grass) in the 'council estate' in the village and it is listed as a public space. As many people have pointed out right to buy is a thing so council estates aren't all council owned anyway so how are you so certain that this unnamed space is a private residents only space?

Hada yes correct that estate is now mostly privately owned. But it was built as council houses. It is a council estate. At the time one of the biggest in England. The OP never said if she was walking through this type of estate or brutalist flats or one built last year? She just said 'council estate'.

You can even use one in a different country! We live on the Wales / England border and taken DD to parks (playgrounds) in various local places on either side of the border! Anarchists we are

@FirstTimeSecondTime

Can’t wait to see a pic of the coin box,

I promise I'll post it! But I'm at work the rest of the week so it'll be a few days before I can go with dd again 😅 I've had a bit of a chuckle at how much of a debate my question caused hehe but seriously thanks all, there are no trolls here as far as I have seen, just different opinions and lots of sensible points to consider

@HadaVerde where are these places? I've never ever seen a council estate with its own private park.

Glad you've realised that it's a public park owned by local borough council and it's perfectly ok for you to go there and use it as a member of the public!

We have many public parks we go to all over the place as it's nice to rotate and never once thought "oh don't live within a few streets so maybe we can't use it!"

Glad you realise you were overthinking it . No one would have right to say "hey new people where do you live?! "

When we go on holiday or visit other areas, we stop at public parks ... walk through and use country walks, and areas of nature beauty and interest! They're managed by local borough councils where we don't live!

@HadaVerde I am sure a PP mentioned the excerpt from the Islington Estate you quoted actually confirmed what everyone is telling you on here but you never responded to their post!

@Legoisthebest

Hada yes correct that estate is now mostly privately owned. But it was built as council houses. It is a council estate. At the time one of the biggest in England. The OP never said if she was walking through this type of estate or brutalist flats or one built last year? She just said 'council estate'.

Another delightful thing about this thread is that it's prompted me to read all about the history of that estate including a blue plaque in it, and what brutalist architecture is - mumsnet's nothing if not intellectual!!