To think it’s nobody’s business what I do with my money?

[ToffeePennee]

I went in to my bank to withdraw a large amount of cash. I explained to the cashier what I wanted to do and she proceeded to ask some security questions - all fine.

One of the questions was what I wanted the cash for so I said I was having building work done. She then started saying that I should pay by bank transfer, it was tax avoidance etc. etc. When I insisted I still wanted to withdraw the money, she sighed and rolled her eyes and I felt really judged and like I’d done something wrong.

I’m glad now that I didn’t admit the real reason is in case the banking system collapses and it’s now stuffed under my mattress.

Please tell me I’m not wrong to think she had no right to judge me and if she did, she should have been professional and not passed comment?

Sounds like she was doing her job.
Must be fucking hard for some people to function in society...

"Hi, welcome to McDonald's, what would you like?"
"How DARE you be so NOSEY.... It's none of your business!"

"Hi, welcome to Tesco, 1 24.pack of beer, having a party?"
"HoW VeRy DaRE You Axe ME pErSoNaL questions!"

"So you've a problem with your laptop? What do you use it for?"
"WHAT?!!" *Convulsions begin...

@VanGoghsDog I said he didn’t ask the bank for the money back from themselves but he did tell them this happened. PP said ‘you’d ask the bank for your money back’ but he didn’t do that. He asked them if there’s anything that can be done to get the money back from the scammer

Make sense now, or is it still odd?

@ToffeePennee, this is a bit off topic, but if your withdrawals are really about keeping cash at home in case of a banking crisis, then have you considered National Savings and Investment instead? It's basically direct lending to the government, backed by HM Treasury, unlike any of the banks. I would worry that in a house fire, or if thieves enter your home, you could lose it all. But even if all the banks fail, so long as cash in UK pounds has any value, NS&I should also be safe.

@WhatIsThisPlease

I inherited quite a large sum of money and after it had been deposited into my bank, they rang me and asked me where I'd got it from!

I told them I'd had a win on the horses 😂

A few years ago, I had inherited money after my mother died and the bank was handling the investment for me. The manager knew how much I would be receiving. I banked the solicitor's cheque at the counter and the assistant never queried it. However, when I went to see the manager a few days later to complete the process, he still required proof (ie the solicitor's letter) before we could finalise the transaction. The banks are terrified of being caught up in any money laundering.

@blacksax

If the entire banking system were to collapse, then your cash would be worthless anyway, because nobody could do anything with it. Chances are that inflation would be totally out of control and the value of the cash would plummet.

Not that you'd earn much interest by leaving it in the bank anyway.

Yy this. It's hilariously misguided to think putting your money under your bed is protection against the banking system collapsing. But tbh it fits with you thinking the bank are being 'nosy' rather than looking for scammers, money launderers and tax avoiders. You might benefit from speaking to a financial adviser.

@ToffeePennee

She believed I was paying for building work and shouldn’t do that via cash, I assume because she believed it an attempt to avoid tax.

Why do PPs never believe what’s been posted? Why would I bother posting a thread about a normal banking transaction with boring normal questions? I’m not stupid and I left feeling judged and like I’d done something wrong because of her tone, mannerisms, and her not accepting my answers, trying to dissuade me from making a perfectly legitimate transaction.

It’s gaslighting, the fuel that keeps society going 😭

@Ilovelblue I posted about HSBC laundering money for drug cartels, they were fined billions, this was only last year. Like I said, they seem happy enough to launder the cartel money.

@tttigress

I had a similar thing a few years ago, I wasn't withdrawing mega money.

But the cashier (HSBC) bought into the conversation what I was doing with the money.

HSBC were just caught last year laundering cartel money.

Oh my mistake it was Barclays and Natwest too!

@VanGoghsDog

Noone has suggested banks do this because they care about people, they do it because they are compelled to by law.

Yes, there was a PP who said that. Why is when I said, I’ve heard it all now.

@AutomaticMoon

In care work you’re supposed to assume people have capacity, why are banks exempt from this?

What do you mean? How was was cashier assuming the OP didn't have capacity? And even in care work, healthcare advice is given to patients, even when they do have capacity.

@TyrannosaurusRegina Care workers are not supposed to stop people from making their own choices, even if they are considered unwise choices.

I just thank God I’m not in that position anymore but banks caring about people is just a bizarre proposition.

I'm glad to hear you're no longer in that position. As pps have said, it's about complying with the law, which mandates that banks have a duty of care to their customers.

I took out some pretty large sums to pay a builder (n £5k batches) and had to ring in advance to get it given they don't always have huge sums on premises. Given that it is effectively tax avoidance I was unsurprised that they asked me some security questions. But it isn't actually legal in tax terms to do it.

Last time I transfered a large amount of money and got similar questions and insinuations about it obviously being dodgy I just said "That's rich coming from a banker" and raised an eyebrow.

AutomaticMoon

Oh my god, I've looked into this now. How annoying! I really hope there's a way to switch that off?

The march of all this crap is indeed scary. I keep thinking I should use cash wherever possible and really must follow up on that.

@Player001

It's safeguarding. Too many people fall prey to scams so they are trying to help prevent that.

I thought I had heard that scams and fraud were not proper crimes and did not affect real people?

It definitely is to avoid tax and you can theoretically be done for it as well as you're colluding in tax avoidance. Very slim chance of it actually happening.

Like fuck do they care if you are getting scammed by someone

Being scammed can destroy people's lives - over £300 million has been lost in scams in one year.

I work with victims of fraud - it is quite shocking 1. how clever and manipulate scammers can be and 2. how easily victims are tricked.

Most UK banks are signed up to a voluntary, banking code which means they have a duty of care to protect their customers from getting scammed and are required to detect high risk payments, identify vulnerable people and freeze payments while they investigate if they think you may be the victim of a scam.

If they don't do enough to protect their customers (are negligent) while the customer has done enough to protect themselves (are not negligent) and the bank refuse to refund the customer's money in the event they have been scammed - the matter can be taken to the Financial Ombudsman (easy to do via an online form) who will allocate an independent advisor to look into the case.

If they find the bank has been negligent while the customer did enough to protect themselves - they will order the bank to refund the lost funds. I have known banks forced to refund as much as £200k, which is a loss to them. That's why they ask the questions.

When I listen to a vulnerable person, who has handed the entirety of their bank account over to a scammer, sometimes I wish they'd do more.

Given there are much easier and safer ways to transfer larger sums of money to a builder, the only benefit I can see for cash is to support some element of tax avoidance

I would imagine any eye rolling was related to selecting an obvious tax avoidance excuse for your withdrawal lie

Clearly professionalism should overrule in this case, but being precious about the interaction when you have chosen to play the role of 'tax avoider' is a little excessive

Years ago my dsis transferred a big amount from her saving to current and was asked if her husband knew she was taking the money out of her own account. She said no, and the teller asked her what it was for. “To pay off the hit man” look of shock. “No not really, it’s paying the divorce lawyer. But I wish it was a hitman”

I thought I had heard that scams and fraud were not proper crimes and did not affect real people

I'm not sure if you're joking.

Of course fraud is a 'proper' crime - just google Action Fraud.

Every single day hundreds of 'real' people are being scammed.

Try speaking to someone who has lost all their savings - or the entirety of their bank account - so now they can't afford to buy food - due to a push payment scam, an investment scam, a pension scam, government imposter scam or an identity fraud.

It's a really very serious matter and affects ordinary people every single day - and it's on the rise - during the pandemic in one year £2.3bn was lost by 'real' people to scammers.

I've even known a person who was in charge of fraud in their organisation to be scammed.

@AutomaticMoon

Yes, and regular people have their bank accounts blocked and it would be ‘tipping-off’ to tell them what the problem is, it’s Kafkaesque.

If people are lacking capacity to manage finances, why are they not being supported with this? It’s absurd to treat all of us as lacking capacity. Many just seem to want to be nannied like this.

You might be part of a criminal ring or like an awful lot people who.are dcammed you may initially find it hard to believe you could possibly be a victim of scammers and let rhe criminals know. Pre covid I used to sit next to a team that phoned people whose transfers had been held pending checking. They got an awful lot of abuse and often had to take a break after a call because of it. They also used to high 5 every time they stopped a scam. That was several times a day and 99% of those had customers with full capacity.

@onemorecupofcoffeefortheroad

I thought I had heard that scams and fraud were not proper crimes and did not affect real people

I'm not sure if you're joking.

Of course fraud is a 'proper' crime - just google Action Fraud.

Every single day hundreds of 'real' people are being scammed.

Try speaking to someone who has lost all their savings - or the entirety of their bank account - so now they can't afford to buy food - due to a push payment scam, an investment scam, a pension scam, government imposter scam or an identity fraud.

It's a really very serious matter and affects ordinary people every single day - and it's on the rise - during the pandemic in one year £2.3bn was lost by 'real' people to scammers.

I've even known a person who was in charge of fraud in their organisation to be scammed.

I am pretty sure I heard earlier this week a government minister saying that fraud was not a proper crime and does not affect people. That is why they have suddenly not included it in the statistics they like to use.

The irony here and double standards astounds me.

How exactly do you think these cartels were laundering money? It starts with individuals accounts, unusual transactions, more and more and larger and larger and then shell companies too. That’s why it’s called laundering. It moves through several stages to make the money seem ‘clean’.

SO - the banks asking questions about what your transactions are for are part of it avoiding ‘laundering money for cartels’.

OP wanting to hoard her life savings under her bed (which is just utterly bizarre) and lying about the purpose (ironically stating it was for another ‘red flag’ activity - paying builder in cash) is all part of the reason the banks have to ask questions to spot money laundering.

I’m not sure why people can’t comprehend that it’s organised crime which is the real enemy here. Not the banks!

Even during the worst financial crisis the world has seen in 2008 all U.K. depositors money was safe….there are multiple points here which just show a fundamental lack of understanding.