Let's do the math for Kirsty regarding an affordable home

[kirstyalslap]

I'm sure everyone has heard that kirsty Allsopp has came out saying that people can afford homes if they only cut out netflix, the gym and takeaway coffees.

I just worked out a meal deal costs £3 a day. X that by 5 days a week 52 weeks a year is £720. Netflix is £8 for 2 screens (?) so times that by 12 months is £96 a year.
Let's add a £20 takeaway every 2 weeks for good measure. £520. Gym costs £14 a month so £168 a year.

So in one year of cutting back on netflix, lunch for work and takeaways I can save £1504
Wow
Now I need 14000 for a deposit so I'm only 10 years away (probably a little but more actually including fees.)

Right now let's think about increase in property value.
My parents bought their house 8 years ago for £90 thousand. A massive 2 reception with 4 bed and 2 huge gardens with a drive.
Bad condition.
Last year the neighbours sold for £230k
This year the other neighbours has been valued at £280k. My parents are thinking of selling for approx £290k.
So in 8 years their house has increased by £200k
(this hurts me as I started saving 8 years ago, nearly 9 and was looking at saving for a smaller house for about 80k needed 4k at the time and had a 5 year plan to get there. No family helping with deposit)

£90k now would get you nothing at all.
Also you need a 10% deposit.
Also rents back then was £500pcm for 2 bed flat. Now they are £700+pcm for same flat.

So how can we do it? How? Please tell me!

Oh also, everyone I know saving for a house has already cut out take away, meal deals, gym (first to go come on!) and much much more.
Batch cooking, shopping around for deals, having friends round rather than going out.
Every thing is rising in price now, I don't know how my children will afford to live away from us, it is scary because as much as we are okay now, we won't be able to have 3 grown adults living in one bedroom until they are in their 30s! Or will it be 40s or 50s by then?

I suspect a lot of BTL landlords will want out as soon as the new energy efficiency requirements start to bite and cost them money. When you are unable to let that damp drab house you own unless you spend £10-15k on improvements, those houses will get dumped at whatever they will fetch, which will create an opening for owner-occupiers to buy them and spend what's needed bringing them up to a family standard.

@RedToothBrush interesting you chose one of the most expensive London boroughs as your 'Just for example.' I notice you didn't go for Caerphilly, Derby, or Carlisle.
Is that because the GOVERNMENT DATA for those areas doesn't PROVE YOUR POINT to such an extreme? (random caps because you seem to like them).
Perhaps you need to go on a NOT EVERYONE LIVES IN LONDON OR THE SOUTH EAST geography course. I'll meet you in the canteen for a slice of avocado toast after I've come out of KIRSTY ALLSOP MATHS FOR THICKOS.

• Caveats of course that not everyone can move to a cheaper place, if everyone did that place wouldn't stay cheap, fewer well paying jobs, blah blah blah. None of which are wrong, I just found your 'Lets take, um I don't know, how about WESTMINSTER as a completely average, off the top of my head, example and if any of you disagree with me you are just THICK" browbeating hilarious.

And just to be contrary because everyone is mocking OPs cheap gym as non-existent - my old gym IS actually £14.99 p/m (Pure gym). This is for off-peak though BUT there is also currently a 50% off offer on for the first month (they do this a few times a year) so you could get off peak for £7.50 or full for £10.50. There's at least 3 other gyms in the local area offering full membership for less than £21 so she's not hugely off the point. It was actually a lot cleaner and with better hours than my twice-the-cost local leisure centre too.

Kirsty has really disgusted me with this comment, what an out of touch, privileged cow!

Interesting, I'm older than Kirsty and can remember paying 15.5% interest on my first mortgage! All my furniture was hand me downs and I bought second hand or made my own clothes. Gym membership or Netflix didn't exist. Kirsty might be out of touch with many but there is a fair proportion who earn a descent wage and just fritter it away. One friend of mine from the S.E. lived with her parents for years whilst saving for a deposit. I flat shared. Then she looked for a job further north and bought up there. Never, when I worked in London were any of my friends or workmates able to buy a home, I only did it when I moved to B'ham. The idea that people can't move area as they will loss their support network is just ridiculous. Moving is the only option not only if you live the the S.E. but try being a young person in rural or seaside areas where second home owners have snapped up all the smaller homes.

20 years ago the owner of where we live now bought the flat for 320k. Now one like this, 1 floor up, is up for sale for 1.6m.
This cannot be normal in any circumstance.

Just worked out if I cut out my £120 pcm expensive gym membership, takeaway coffee a day and Saturday night takeaway I'd save 3600 in a year.
I'd need a 40k deposit for a flat in my street.

@XingMing if you own a 500k house, why would you begrudge the 10k to 20k to bring them up to standard. I mean, for cash strapped families, its understandable; if they don't have the money, they don't have the money. Surely BTL landlords have more financing options...

I don't own one, but DS lives in one a student HMO, for which five people pay £2,500 per month which fails all the energy efficiency rules, being inadequately insulated, and damp. These houses will get dumped because they are income producing, until they aren't. And if it will cost £15k to insulate and improve heating and ventilation etc. then in this small town, they will sell up.

Energy efficiency is interesting. We have just had an EPC survey done, and the outcome was a low D score. We would have to spend at least £25k (it's a largish house) to get to a better D rating. But there was no proposal to get this house to a B or A score, because it really isn't feasible.

Sounds like a lot of people are making excuses for themselves the playing the woe is me card.
The point is, if you really want it there are sacrifices that you can make. Many people will fritter away every penny they have and plead poverty the week before pay day and complain they can't afford to buy a house yet won't do without and make the effort to save. They will literally piss hundreds of pound up against a wall every weekend. But it's "not fair", " i can't save" etc etc.
The coffee and Netflix and gym memberships are just to get you thinking - they are not the answer in themselves. Like Don't buy that bottle of prosecco, get your nails done every month, trowel on the expensive makeup like it's a cheap plaster bulk buy from B&Q. Go 2 years without Dominos every friday night. Forgo the designer clothes. You don't "just have to have it".
You don't need to go out clubbing/pub etc every friday and saturday night.
Buy a cheap phone outright & a £10 sim only deal rather than £50 or £60+ per month on the latest iphone. You don't need a new audi or bmw on HP or PCP.
If lunch is expensive at work, bring a packed lunch from home (even a £3 tesco meal deal adds up over time).

So no it's not the odd coffee and netflix subscription its all your spending habits and your attitude to them that needs to change and frankly a bit of self control and maturity. You can be as jealous of Kirsty and the advantages she had but she is still right.

I think it depends. I'm 30, and we've been home owners for 6 years.

Of our friends, they're in 2 groups, home owners and renters. We're all similar in terms of upbringing, education and employment. But those us who are home owners were willing to make more sacrifices. These have included things like nights out, holidays, location of our rental properties to get cheaper rent, longer gaps between hair cuts, home dye kits, not buying the latest games console, cheap Xmas pressies for partners and from partners, no take aways, no coffees, meals out, no nails, lashes or brows etc. We were also willing to compromise on the house we bought - smaller, worse condition and in a location we weren't keen on but we did it up, sold it 3 years later and now have another fixer upper in a better location.

Obviously, there'll be a number of people who already go without all of those things and rent too small houses in bad areas but certainly not everyone.

I've got friends who at 25 prioritised a nice (rented) home in lovely locations but now when looking to start a family can't get on the property ladder. And kids are expensive, so waiting until you've had them just makes it harder. Again, not everyone has that choice.

Where do your parents live? £90,000 eight years ago wouldn’t get you a studio flat where I live. Gym membership is £45 pm for the council run or £95 for the swanky one. My two bed flat is valued at £300k, my ndn rents a one bedroom for £950 per month, he’s a teacher, he can’t save due to high rent/cost of living (not London) you are correct it’s impossible for our kids to get on the ladder & Many parents don’t have the financial means to assist nor should they.

@RedToothBrush why the capital letters?

I made sacrifices and bought without help. You're welcome to my maths school.

@Comefromaway

The portions are massive. I share a fish and chips between us and there are still some chips left over to put with a ham sandwich the next day.

Oh, old cold chips are vile though! Our chippy will do two 'medium' fish, (like Moby Dick), one small chips for about £11, it's more than enough for 3 even 4 people and some will be wasted, it's the only place where you have to say Stop when they serve up the chips!

@user1471447863

Sounds like a lot of people are making excuses for themselves the playing the woe is me card. The point is, if you really want it there are sacrifices that you can make. Many people will fritter away every penny they have and plead poverty the week before pay day and complain they can't afford to buy a house yet won't do without and make the effort to save. They will literally piss hundreds of pound up against a wall every weekend. But it's "not fair", " i can't save" etc etc. The coffee and Netflix and gym memberships are just to get you thinking - they are not the answer in themselves. Like Don't buy that bottle of prosecco, get your nails done every month, trowel on the expensive makeup like it's a cheap plaster bulk buy from B&Q. Go 2 years without Dominos every friday night. Forgo the designer clothes. You don't "just have to have it". You don't need to go out clubbing/pub etc every friday and saturday night. Buy a cheap phone outright & a £10 sim only deal rather than £50 or £60+ per month on the latest iphone. You don't need a new audi or bmw on HP or PCP. If lunch is expensive at work, bring a packed lunch from home (even a £3 tesco meal deal adds up over time).

So no it's not the odd coffee and netflix subscription its all your spending habits and your attitude to them that needs to change and frankly a bit of self control and maturity. You can be as jealous of Kirsty and the advantages she had but she is still right.

Right, I have never pissed hundreds of pounds up a wall. In fact I can't actually remember the last time I went out for the evening and had more than two drinks. I think it was 5 years ago. Last time I had a Dominos was our work Christmas lunch last year. I've not had a takeaway since then. Can't say it was enjoyable. I wear light make up once a week when I go to the office. I don't wear designer clothes although do wear good quality, some of which are second hand and I've had since pre uni days, so 9 years. They still look great. My phone is paid for outright. I don't have a tv license. I drive a second hand Kia Picanto that cost me 2k. I don't buy lunch at my one day a week in the office. I don't eat meat and I batch cook. I never buy ready meals. I've had my hair cut twice in the past year to try and keep some semblance of a professional image for work. I've never had my nails done. I don't even paint them. I'm not a member of a gym either.

I save like mad and I'm trying to buy a house. Low deposit mortgages for first time buyers were stopped during covid and now I've got a mortgage in principle I have been through a series of down valuations and being outbid on properties. One didn't even have any heating at all upstairs. Not even electric radiators. And I was prepared to live without but I still got outbid. My parents looked round it with me and commented it wasn't much bigger than a double garage in total.

While house prices soar, I'm struggling on paying expensive rent in a house that doesn't reach over 16 degrees with the heating on and has wind literally coming through the closed windows.

I'm angry and pissed off. And you're frankly ridiculous.

We bought our first house in the late 90’s for £20k in a midlands town. I was earning £12.5k a year and Dh was still doing his PGCE.

A similar house in the same street sold last year for £170k. The same job as I had back then pays £18k.

Salaries and house prices haven’t risen in line with each other.

It does depend how much you spend on coffee, and what it is that's preventing you from buying.

It would be quite possible to spend a couple of hundred a month on fripperies in your twenties. Say £2,500 a year. If you saved it over ten years instead you'd have maybe £30k with a bit of compound growth by the time you reach your thirties. If it's a lack of a decent sized deposit which is your obstacle then that might be enough to make the difference. If you're single and trying to buy in London on a salary of £30k it's not really going to get you any further!

Whilst she has over simplified it. Much of it is true. Imagine now people being asked to do what our parents/ grandparents generation did. They owned furniture one piece per month.

You don't have to own a TV but people consider it a basic necessity. An awful lot of people do want to buy nice cars/ holidays/ clothes/ hair ..... Then complain that they can't buy.

Asp people have kids first (not saying that's wrong but saying it does make it harder to save).

Also, maybe you need to consider your wage. You can't decide to work in a minimum wage job then get upset that the money doesn't stretch as far as if you were a lawyer ...

@BoredZelda

Also moving to different 'cheaper' areas might mean moving further from family/friends/support networks.

Which means when you start a family you then have to pay for childcare which means you can’t afford your mortgage or, go on benefits because you’re actually financially better off.

So you would be looking to make use of famil;y for free childcare? I do love this on MN, the family provide free childcare but heaven forbid they should express an opinion slightly at odds with the woman!

[quote onlychildhamster]@XingMing if you own a 500k house, why would you begrudge the 10k to 20k to bring them up to standard. I mean, for cash strapped families, its understandable; if they don't have the money, they don't have the money. Surely BTL landlords have more financing options...[/quote]
Depends if they are still paying off the mortgage tbh. There is less spare cash to be made (in the short term obv) in btl than you might think if you are making mortgage payments.

Some of the so-called savings suggested are a false economy though. I've just sold our 9 year old car and bought a 2021 hybrid for £10k. The old car sold for £3k via a garage. One of the reasons I sold it was the high emissions meaning high annual tax. Another was the £600 of work that needed doing. Another was the fact that it was costing me £15 more in petrol every 3 weeks than the new one does. It can be more efficient while you're saving to invest in the things you do need.

@Woahthehorsey interesting, did you go to uni? If so, how did you manage to save up a deposit in 3 years, we're you able to live at home ?

@Brieandcamembert when we bought our flat in 2019, DH was convinced we wouldn't be able to afford to furnish our flat. But our sofa bench cost £250 (RRP £325), our table cost a few hundred from Muji (genuinely can't remember). Bed from Muji was quite expensive but that was the only expensive thing. Bookshelves, under desk pedestal and wardrobe all from Ikea. Desk from Ikea- £113. When lockdown hit, I got my own desk from Argos for £100. I don't consider myself a bargain hunter when it comes to furniture. We have a hanging rail from Muji, another single bed from Muji (£600) and a dressing table from futon company that I must have gotten on discount (probably £150 or something like that) and that is the grand total of our furniture. I don't have a TV either, but our projector cost £300 (so same cost as a cheap tv i guess).

Compared to our 70k deposit, the total spent in furnishing our flat was truly peanuts- £3000 at most... Thats the difference between my generation (I am 29) and our parents' generation. Consumer goods are relatively cheap. My MIL inherited someone's dining table and even though she is no richer today, she is going to IKEA like everyone else..She isn't getting people's cast offs...Its the same with clothes tbh, i buy clothes at charity shops but I am still often paying £20 for a dress. It is not Boohoo prices (£6 for a dress!)

@ParkingFeud
Right, I have never pissed hundreds of pounds up a wall. In fact I can't actually remember the last time I went out for the evening and had more than two drinks. I think it was 5 years ago.
Last time I had a Dominos was our work Christmas lunch last year. I've not had a takeaway since then. Can't say it was enjoyable.
I wear light make up once a week when I go to the office.
I don't wear designer clothes although do wear good quality, some of which are second hand and I've had since pre uni days, so 9 years.
They still look great.
My phone is paid for outright.
I don't have a tv license.
I drive a second hand Kia Picanto that cost me 2k.
I don't buy lunch at my one day a week in the office.
I don't eat meat and I batch cook. I never buy ready meals.
I've had my hair cut twice in the past year to try and keep some semblance of a professional image for work.
I've never had my nails done. I don't even paint them.
I'm not a member of a gym either.

I save like mad and I'm trying to buy a house. Low deposit mortgages for first time buyers were stopped during covid and now I've got a mortgage in principle I have been through a series of down valuations and being outbid on properties. One didn't even have any heating at all upstairs. Not even electric radiators. And I was prepared to live without but I still got outbid. My parents looked round it with me and commented it wasn't much bigger than a double garage in total.

While house prices soar, I'm struggling on paying expensive rent in a house that doesn't reach over 16 degrees with the heating on and has wind literally coming through the closed windows.

I'm angry and pissed off. And you're frankly ridiculous.

Erm you've literally just agreed with everything I've said, and added in extra examples of unnecessary spending that others could cut out if they really wanted, so I'm not sure why you think i am ridiculous.
I have utmost respect for you and your efforts - it is those that fritter away everything they earn on nothing and then complain about it that i was having the go at.
You are doing without and have cut out all unnecessary spending to achieve the goal you set yourself, and by the sounds of it you are very nearly there. There are many more that could do what you have done but simply don't want to do without.
Best of luck with the final hurdle, you will get there in the end- you've done the hard bit

Reminds me of this.

[quote catfunk]@Woahthehorsey interesting, did you go to uni? If so, how did you manage to save up a deposit in 3 years, we're you able to live at home ? [/quote]
Yes, I went to uni.

We moved it to a shared house out of uni in a really shitty part of town to keep rent and bills as low as possible and we very rarely went out other than to work.