Let's do the math for Kirsty regarding an affordable home

[kirstyalslap]

I'm sure everyone has heard that kirsty Allsopp has came out saying that people can afford homes if they only cut out netflix, the gym and takeaway coffees.

I just worked out a meal deal costs £3 a day. X that by 5 days a week 52 weeks a year is £720. Netflix is £8 for 2 screens (?) so times that by 12 months is £96 a year.
Let's add a £20 takeaway every 2 weeks for good measure. £520. Gym costs £14 a month so £168 a year.

So in one year of cutting back on netflix, lunch for work and takeaways I can save £1504
Wow
Now I need 14000 for a deposit so I'm only 10 years away (probably a little but more actually including fees.)

Right now let's think about increase in property value.
My parents bought their house 8 years ago for £90 thousand. A massive 2 reception with 4 bed and 2 huge gardens with a drive.
Bad condition.
Last year the neighbours sold for £230k
This year the other neighbours has been valued at £280k. My parents are thinking of selling for approx £290k.
So in 8 years their house has increased by £200k
(this hurts me as I started saving 8 years ago, nearly 9 and was looking at saving for a smaller house for about 80k needed 4k at the time and had a 5 year plan to get there. No family helping with deposit)

£90k now would get you nothing at all.
Also you need a 10% deposit.
Also rents back then was £500pcm for 2 bed flat. Now they are £700+pcm for same flat.

So how can we do it? How? Please tell me!

Oh also, everyone I know saving for a house has already cut out take away, meal deals, gym (first to go come on!) and much much more.
Batch cooking, shopping around for deals, having friends round rather than going out.
Every thing is rising in price now, I don't know how my children will afford to live away from us, it is scary because as much as we are okay now, we won't be able to have 3 grown adults living in one bedroom until they are in their 30s! Or will it be 40s or 50s by then?

Just to echo the point about housing "up north". We do live in quite a nice rural area, but bought our house 3 years ago and it has increased in value by over £75,000 in that time. Houses nearby are selling for crazy amounts.

I think we'll end up putting the deposits down for our kids at this rate. We've been looking at BTL properties in need of refurbishing, and even those are going for much more than they're really worth.

notacooldad you are not a million miles from me. I linked a Burnley semi detached earlier at 90,000 in a nice part, admittedly needed modernisation. Habitable terraces are cheaper. 45 mins direct train into Manchester City centre. Or direct express bus.
Like I said earlier not every 20 somethings dream to live in a deprived ex mill town but doable on one salary.

Surprised she hasn’t put out a template for macrame housing!

I bought a tiny house 22 years ago. Was 4x my annual wage. I sold it a few years later for a third more. Nowadays that house would be 14x that old wage. My wage has not grown by anywhere near that.

@adoreyou

How much is the annual season ticket, and how far to the station? Or is there parking at the station and how much/day/week? Is it a safe walk from the station to the house or is there a regular bus?

For a 1hr train journey (what is the frequency of that journey time) I'd assume 1h 20 minimum from leaving work to last nursery pick up which (train timetable depending) would have you needing to be out of work (and stopping earning) on the dot of 5 to be reliably back for a (late) closing time for a nursery of 6.30 - you'll be stuffed finding an after school club...

It's not so much the "Instagram house" as the can I actually keep my job around the travel logistics...

Yes it is impossible for many to save enough and I can see why people give up. However, a coffee a day is a terrible habit for someone short of cash. And often means spending habits.
When I was saving for my first deposit I had no car, no freezer, no tumble dryer, no tv. I house shared for 10 years. It is a mindset. Some people like to spend money on things they probably don't need, but their lives happier or easier.
I still don't have Netflix, have lunch out, have a cleaner etc. And I share a car. I think I save a fortune this way.

I've seen a couple of people saying they made do without a freezer. But you'll definitely spend more money on food if you don't have a freezer,

[quote onlychildhamster]@ToykotoLosAngeles my service charge includes window cleaning and a contribution to the sink fund (so I don't pay for roof repairs). Garden upkeep (we have a large communal garden). I mean, you could never repair your house; my MIL has a guttering problem she can't afford to repair cos it would cost in excess of 10k but that would affect your property value too!

my flat is EPC D as it was built in the 1930s. It is warm only because heat rises and I am on the top floor![/quote]
My housing repairs cost is 0 as the house is 8 years old. No lawn to mow. I do obviously pay buildings insurance though which is about £100 a year.

I'm not sure if you're disagreeing, when I was just pondering? I didn't slag off flats.

But Chorley isn’t a city, isn’t the same as moving “up north” to Manchester or Leeds or Newcastle for a better quality of life and good job to MOST young adults however nice it may be
Of course it's not but not every young person is initialy high flying or able to afford an apartment on Salford Quays. These out of city places are on the commuter corridor.
However they are a start. The point t if the argument is that there can be cheaper housing. The young people I know are working at places such as Aerospace rather than the city.

[quote onlychildhamster]@Lolamento the UK is the one of the few countries where people have different preferences as to housing type based on life stage. I have lived in 2 other countries and haven't seen this at least on such a large scale. In european cities, families, professionals and singles alike predominantly live in flats. In the UK, flat living is seen to be for young people, poor people or downsizers in assisted living residences. People want a house with garden when they have a family and this has been the case for many years. So of course many of the houses are inhabited by the elderly who had young families 30 years ago. They are not building any more of these family houses. In london most of the new builds are flats. A lot of the new build houses are very expensive and quite small.

In my experience, it is not that difficult to buy a 2 bed flat (even in London; the main problem is that most people who seem to want to buy flats in London are singles which make it more difficult). What is difficult is to buy the family home. It is hard to find larger 3 bed flats as the supply is limited but they are still cheaper and more attainable than the houses. I am open to apartment living which means that it was easier for me to buy. If i only wanted to buy the 3 bed semi detached in a lush green home counties suburb, i would possibly still be waiting (and I bought over 2 years ago).[/quote]
OK, I'll bite.

Full time earnings of £1600/month takehome.

Rent 750 (extremely cheap for the shitty but expensive area). Food. Travel 80. Clothing for work. Council tax 175. Electricity. Gas. Water.

Where does saving for a deposit come into this? What affordability check will give a mortgage figure of (checks price of bedsit) £170,000? (cheapest bedsit in same area).

Or is the idea to buy somewhere 500 miles away for £110,000 (cheapest bedsit and ignoring the fact that this still requires a deposit in the thousands) and move there in the knowledge that you will be unemployed from the day you move in, just hoping that you'll be able to find another job in an area of significantly higher unemployment and lower wages before the first mortgage payment is due?

The woman is a moron. This is the same woman who thought it was horrible to have washing machines in the kitchen. Proof that not only politicians live in bubbles.

@cookiemonster2468

Where on earth are you living that gym membership is only £14 a month? (jealous)

Anyway yes, of course you are right and there are many people who will never own homes now. Those who say cutting out Netflix and avocados will make a difference are living in cloud cuckoo land!

My gym membership is £32 per month, that’s just daytime membership; full membership costs more.

@Ozanj I do get where she's coming from, but it's tone deaf to ignore the people who are lower earners. She should have been much clearer that it was a specific income band and age group she was targeting. Her point has been lost, and all she's done is wind up a lot of people.

@Mousespace I gave one example of someone whose detailed finances I know (chronic oversharer). I know plenty of others in similar circumstances, just where I can't give specific numbers. You get tons of young people going into high-earning grad jobs who take over 10 years to realise they're not still at university anymore and don't have to live it up.

@Butterismylife Yes, I lived in a tiny house share for 5 years myself to save money, whilst he rented a giant fancy flat. Did I enjoy living in a shoebox? Not massively, but I couldn't afford to rent the sort of property I wanted whilst saving for the sort of property I wanted.

I'm not saving everyone can do it (there is a definite salary band where home ownership is out of reach without assistance), but for those on decent wages with no dependents, they can cut back their lifestyles to save up.

@notacooldad

Ah Chorley, that well known business capital full of well paid job opportunities Easy to mock! It's on the commuter line to Manchester. It's right next to Preston. I'm sure the people of Chorley are going to love your put down comments while you try to mock me.. Chorley is right next to Buckshaw. People there seem to be having great job opportunities. So maybe a starter home a mile or so away isnt so bad.

Chorley is a deprived little market town. Buckshaw is full of warehouses with packing/line jobs. The "people of Chorley" (me) are fine with the facts. Don't randomly pick one shitty little town up north as an example. I can't afford to buy that delightful house on Garfield Terrace...

@Pyriah

‘ 50 years ago my parents bought their first house for under £1000’ Firstly money has changed. £1000 in 1970 would be about £16k today.

Secondly houses were cheap because they weren’t so much in demand. People were living with parents until they married and sometimes beyond. When people start wanting to live alone, housing is more in demand and prices go up.

Erm yes I'm aware that 1k isn't the same as 1k now, but do you want to point me to the areas where you can buy a family house for 16k??

The fact that there are a few 90K properties in Chorley is pretty irrelevant. Property prices are not that low in most places, and where they are depressed, it's for good reason, including depressed wages.

It would not make sense to leave family and friends and move to Chorley even supposing you had a job there (and many jobs in depressed areas are low waged) just to try and obtain a house.

There are obviously a small number of people who earn highish wages, who could rationalize their money differently. Pretty much everyone I know has had a hand onto the ladder or bought more than 10 years ago. By hand I mean leant money, or allowed to live at home, or is in a couple where one is a high earner or some other such arrangement.

It's pointless to argue because the facts are you could get a mortgage to buy a house on one average professional salary with a multiple of three 30 years ago when Kirsty was first buying, and now you would need two salaries (or one very high salary) plus a much higher multiple plus a much higher deposit.

This doesn't mean no young people can ever buy, but those exceptions are not typical of what most people can achieve. It's really not about Netflix. Plus the cost of living is higher and higher! see the other posts on mumsnet. Young people are not exempt from the pinch we are all feeling!

My parents, married in 1955 at 20 and 21, lived in a caravan in a farmyard because as a young officer in the Navy or the Army, you didn't qualify for military accommodation before the age of 25. They bought their first house in 1959 for under £1000. Same for my PILs. With the expectation that they would be moving every 2 years, to wherever the next job sent them. It meant that my DM spent half her young married life alone with a small baby and a dog, because Pa went to sea... he left for Aden when I was five days old.

@onlychildhamster

Just found one on for £145,000

The train station is less then a 5 minute walk. Season ticket I don't know anymore but was about £350 a month.
Journey time 40- 50 mins and trains where quite regular... not so sure now though.

As for nursery etc, it's one bed flat, so not aimed at anyone with kids so not really relevant.

Is it the nicest area, meh no probably not but it's down to perspective I guess.
Some people would say where we live isn't the nicest area but we like it....

perfectly liveable 2 bed flat for under 100K
www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/119405306#/floorplan?activePlan=1&channel=RES_BUY

Great idea to do the math OP.
Kirsty Allsopp et al live in a super privileged bubble.

Slapping people down for buying takeaway coffee, avocado on toast in cafes and gym membership is at best ignorant if not just kicking and shaming ordinary and mostly younger people.

The maths simply doesn't add up. We can see this illustrated in the huge increase in people living in private rented accommodation who would prefer not to be and also in the huge increase in adults living at home with their parents.

I bought a property in 1996 which makes me very fortunate. The same job in 2021 now pays £40k and my first property would now cost £300k.
In 1996 I earned £25k and bought for £50k.

I hate it when people who are fortunate enough to have purchased property themselves look at others who through no fault of their own cannot afford to buy and then try to shame them for buying avocado on toast at a cafe or for buying gym membership to keep themselves healthy.

Don't randomly pick one shitty little town up north as an example. I can't afford to buy that delightful house on Garfield Terrace
Chorley is not a shitty town!! I dud not randomly pick it!

Things are getting bogged down and going in so many circles I'm getting dizzy.
To clarify my points
Someone said you cant even buy a house for 90 k.
I said actually you can. It may not be perfect but in my local towns you can.
People laid in about my examples as not suitable for young high flyers.. I countered by saying not every young person is high flying 🤦‍♀️ and anyway these kind of places are on the commuter run.

Someone else implied that I was saying that people should come up north. I categorically did not. I said there needs to be affordable starter homes in the south and south east.

I think that's enough MN for one day!!

It depends where you live, you can get a flat in a play area of Newcastle for 50k so would only need a 2.5k deposit.

Our first house was to small but it was all we could afford despite being on decent wages. It's took us 7yrs to save enough for the dream forever some on top of the increase in equity. Speaking to some of the young ones at work they expect to buy what we have now as a first home. Even our dream home needs a lot of work!

4 bed nice flat area quite good decent schools but on a main road

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/107989052#/media?channel=RES_BUY&id=media5&ref=floorPlanPage

@OnwardsAndSideways1 do you think what Kirsty enjoyed 30 years ago was a historical blip. I am inclined to think so. Mass home ownership is relatively new; a large percentage of the population lived in council housing (secure rent but still rental nonetheless), but thatcher made them home owners via right to buy. Maybe now the chickens are coming home to roost and we are back to the inequality of the pre-war years where only a third of Britons were home owners. In 1918 less than a quarter of Britain’s homes were owner-occupied. Mortgages were rare, most people rented their homes privately and new property was mainly built for sale to private landlords. I think this is an accurate picture of my generation (age 23-38); around a third currently own a home. It took the post war boom to raise home ownership rates. A friend of mine thinks that it would take another 20 years for our home ownership rates to increase and for property to become more affordable (relative to incomes), he may not be wrong. This doesn't mean the market wouldn't crash, it probably would, but all it may do is help someone who could only afford a flat afford a house rather than be genuinely re-distributive.

abcfinance.co.uk/blog/generation-rent-study/

@onlychildhamster yes, it might be a blip. I think one of the issues that keeps people focused on buying in the Uk is the problems in the rental sector with instability of rentals, it's so nerve wracking having short term 6 month rents and having to move again and again with children, plus the problems of bad landlords. I'm a landlord myself, but I agree with greater regulation of the sector plus more support from councils to take benefit tenants (I would have done under the old scheme but wouldn't now, even though this is illegal).

If rentals were longer term and more secure, then there would be less stress about buying. Buying is rightly seen as the only way you can really have any feeling of security in your home. I was in magnolia painted rentals for years with kids and it's a horrible feeling.

Also, it's true that what people expect in both house-buying and rentals is higher than it was before, when I was a student or just out of college, I lived in grotty houses. People still do but in the main, expectations all around are higher; most rentals are painted better and have better quality appliances than in the past- witness the microwave thread where everyone expects a landlord to pay for a new microwave as the old one is a bit stained but functional!

The whole housing sector in England needs reform, the house buying process is a mess, houses are very expensive to buy (I've fallen off the property ladder whilst saving twice, and round here prices have just shot up again) and the rental sector is insecure. Not enough social housing. All these things are inter-connected and I guess we have to ask why there is no appetite for change from the current government or indeed past ones. Round our way, councils are trying to buy back one bed ex-council properties at 5x the price they were sold to so they can fulfil their housing obligations.