If it comes to it would you choose heating or eating?

[Tuliprain]

We were having this discussion the other night. I would choose eating and husband would choose heating - so we are already stuck. Im thinking we could warm up with blankets and hot water bottles etc but nothing you can do about hunger. He says the house will go mouldy and he’s rather be hungry than cold. Such a depressing subject to be considering.

@oakleaffy How right you are! I only caught the last years of squatting before the law changed for residential buildings but I then lived in commercial ones for a while. It really was the best times of my life. I only lived in Whitechapel and Leytonstone so not the ‘glamourous’ 😂 squats but I met so many different people and learned so much, started playing in bands and getting some self worth after an abusive childhood and foster care, etc. Oh I did stay in City Rd squat too for a while and that was surrounded by high rise offices and luxury flats. Meanwhile people made walls out of straw bales in our (office) building 😂

Skipping food from skips (supermarket bins) was a regular affair and many nice things we found for free. A whole case of honey because one jar was broken. In London there was the free vegetarian food you could get from the Sikh temple.

Now the supermarkets spray blue paint on the stuff so people don’t use it. Or I don’t know now, but that was the case towards the end, in 2010. Thankfully I’ve been able to buy food since then but just about, carers get paid less then cleaners for some reason, just minimum wage. I don’t have formal education due to having to care for my mother when I should’ve been going to school as she had paranoid schizophrenia and we were in Africa, in a foreign place.

@JuergenSchwarzwald

Eating, obviously. You can't survive without food. You can just warm one room, or have the heating on every other day for an hour to stop damp etc.

This I think is the best option

@Idontliketuesdays

All I remember is that even though I'd experienced physically far lower temperatures, I had never felt cold in my life like a Scottish February.

Agree with this. I’m brought up in a country with very long winters and easily down to -30. Never been cold indoors in my life (nor am I now). Moved to UK when I was 19 and have never been as cold in my life. This is when I learnt to drink tea. 😂 I can never forget how cold I was all the time, and the lack of long hot showers. And lack of being able to dry clothes properly. (Still loved it though!)

The UK has an unfortunate combination of cold and damp. And poorly built and maintained housing. Damp makes it feel cold. When we moved here, this house was damp. I didn't think it was very damp at first, just a few bits of wallpaper on lower walls a bit damp, but gradually realised how bad it was. We first started to sleep here in August, and I found I needed a quilt + 2 woollen blankets and a nightshirt and bedsocks so as not to be staying awake because I was cold. In August. And generally I don't feel the cold, and need to be cool at night to sleep. We had a (real) damp specialist in. He recommended a lot of ventilation- direct and indirect, as well as insulation. (Note- this costs money poor people do not have to spend.) It took about 2 years for the house to really dry out. Thing is- we keep the heating on low on a thermostat, and had temp/moisture meters monitoring various rooms. The actual temperature is set at exactly the same as the first winter- 17 degrees. But it feels absolutely masses warmer, because it isn't damp. (*The insulation makes it cheaper to heat, but doesn't affect the temperature as the thermostat is set at the same temp.)

UK housing stock is often badly insulated, and badly ventilated. Combine that with a damp climate and fuel poverty and this is what you get- cold, moldy houses- horribly unhealthy for the occupants, especially children.

People living in (often rented) poorly insulated and ventilated housing are paying a fortune for heating and are still cold, and still have moldy walls.

I grew up in a house without central heating, think that was the norm when I was young. Used to scrape the ice off the windows in the morning where the condensation froze.

We would eat before heating the house if it came down to it. We use blankets, jumpers and hot water bottles anyway. Luckily it's been mild and barely need the heating on.

If it came to it heating.

Like others on this thread I have a disability and if I get too cold I can't function, my pain increases a huge amount and my quality of life really deteriorates.

I'm very lucky that I have a bit of a buffer in credit with my energy company and I a freezer full of food which includes a lot of home made batch cooking which can go in the microwave.

I live alone so no one to share bills with and I've already made changes to reduce the time I have my heating on for across the day and trying to bulk out more meals with added vegetables, I have several electric blankets and do have thermals but on some days my limb cannot tolerate anything on it so that doesn't help the situation, having a cold house isn't worth the cost to me

@Hearwego

Sorry to derail this slightly, but where is cheapest for shopping bills? I seriously need to reduce my food bills. I shop at Tesco buy they apparently price match Aldi for lots of items.

You can usually get cheapish fruit and veg from markets and often they sell some off very cheap when they are packing up.

We are vegetarian and buy things like lentils, chickpeas, different beans from Asian supermarkets. They also usually do big nets of onions very cheap. Also spices, herbs etc are cheap and come in bigger amounts that the silly little jars that supermarkets sell.

Eating more veggie meals has to be the way to go as it is so much cheaper than eating meat or fish. A biggish pack of lentils or chickpeas is cheap and can make so many meals just adding some veg, spice etc

@mrsm43s

Surely it's not either or? And no one would choose NO heating and plenty of food or NO food and heating normally. Surely absolutely everyone would try to cut costs across BOTH heating and eating so that you neither froze nor starved?

So thermostat down a couple of degrees and on for less time each day, extra layers and blankets. (and also reduce other energy usage - wash clothes/bedding less often, air dry don't tumble, use recipes that don't need long oven cooking, reduce use of phones/computers/tvs etc.)
Food shopping pared back to cheapest options, whatever's in the reduced aisle etc (even if they're not your preference) in order to ensure that the was sufficient heat and food to get by.

I think the problem is that some people are way past this advice having an impact - not a case of turning the thermostat down as switching it on to start with . And already on the cheapest food.

@Aaaabbbcccc People (single) are expected to live on £70 a week on benefits, someone please correct me? That’s for everything, including Council Tax, yes you still have to pay it. So I don’t understand what fantasy world in you get more benefits when you need them. People are also sanctioned for spurious reasons and expected to live on nothing. There are disabled people who cannot get approved for disability benefits. Someone dear to me has visibly very deformed ankles which kill him with pain yet he gets absolutely nothing, and no help from nhs, even though he’s young, he’s just supposed to get on with it, a job on his feet all day while his ankles crumble.

I think the problem is that some people are way past this advice having an impact - not a case of turning the thermostat down as switching it on to start with . And already on the cheapest food.

Exactly.

@Nohypocrate

Eating but not wasting money on crap food. I was in Aldi earlier and a couple had a trolley laden with crisps, sweets, cake and chocolate. The total bill was £80ish but I'd say £30 was crap. If they stopped that it's an extra £120 a month. People have got to change their ways I guess.

And were this couple complaining about lack of money for food or were you just judging their trolley ?

Sorry to be thick here. I understand you saying you don't need all radiators oñ but your boiler is on so are you not being charged the same amount regardless

@Hearwego I get a discount in Tesco, but I still shop in Aldi and Lidl because although some items in Tesco are price-matched, a lot isn't. There is less variety, brand names and special offers to tempt you into spending more, that's the crux point. If you know you get tempted by those things, you will definitely benefit from shopping in ALdi/Lidl.
Also NEVER shop without a list, or when you are hungry!

@BlueMongoose Exactly, and people in damp slum flats like me (listed building btw, with 0 maintenance) can’t dry clothes anywhere indoors, no outside space... I noticed that in Scotland even flats have outdoor space for drying clothes and sometimes even a storage shed. Don’t see this in England.

@Piggyk2
My mum always said if boiler is on you’re spending the same heating one radiator as you would them all.

I always said it takes energy to heat one radiator so therefore it’s cheaper than heating them all.

No idea who is right though

@lightand

I never get the heating or eating argument. There are many many things I would cut out before any of those. Less clothes, less grooming, cheaper tv package. The list goes on.

If people are having to choose between heating or food for their children I doubt they are having their nails done or buying clothing beyond the necessary.

@KurtWilde

Some really tone deaf comments on this thread from posters who clearly don't have a clue what it's like to have nothing.

Agree with this. I’m fairly ok now but I grew up with nothing and it’s horrible.

And for those who are saying that they didn’t have central heating when they were younger - so what? Didn’t we also send young children down the pits and people to workhouses. Shall we bring them back as well? I do not think there is any place for anyone to go hungry and cold in one of the richest countries in the world. It’s a disgrace.

@Chichimcgee my thought process is the same as your mums. I have no idea either

I'd choose to eat but could cut back a lot. Unfortunately we would have a mould problem asap without heating so it kind of has to win.

I've treated myself to some central heating today - I've had a good income month. Unfortunately, as a single adult Carer of my disabled ds it will wipe out any UC assistance I could get. Fair enough, but then my Council Tax Bill will be assessed as if a 'good month' happens every month, so next month I'll get clobbered by Council Tax.

And it goes on until my attempts to find some more employment is successful.

[quote Chichimcgee]@Piggyk2
My mum always said if boiler is on you’re spending the same heating one radiator as you would them all.

I always said it takes energy to heat one radiator so therefore it’s cheaper than heating them all.

No idea who is right though[/quote]
You’re right, there’s threads on monesavingforum about this.

@Piggyk2

Sorry to be thick here. I understand you saying you don't need all radiators oñ but your boiler is on so are you not being charged the same amount regardless

Yes, while the boiler is on, but once the thermostat gets to temperature the boiler will go off until the temperature drops again. I figure if I direct the heat downstairs where I want it then the thermostat which is also downstairs will reach temperature quicker so the boiler will go off. If I heat upstairs it doesn't help at all.

I do not think there is any place for anyone to go hungry and cold in one of the richest countries in the world. It’s a disgrace.

I completely agree @Florelei

Unfortunately, the benefits system (and universal credit in particular) is a farce. It's not fit for purpose. They know this and they do nothing about it. Ridiculous sanctions, knowingly leaving families without even enough money for the basics, and saying 'just go to a food bank' is abhorrent. And many of these are working families, too. On unstable zero hour contacts with fluctuating income.

If you turn your boiler on and only have 2 radiators turned on out of 5 for example does it not just cost the sample as having all radiators turned on?

Sorry, I wasn’t clear here - we don’t have gas in our house. Replaced the old storage heaters when we moved in with modern electric radiators than can be operated independently of each other. So for example DC rooms on 5-6am and 6-8pm, then low overnight. Living room only on 6-7am and 5-7pm. No heater in kitchen or bathroom and the playroom is ok in bright weather as is a modern extension with glass panels in the roof, so we just heat as needed.

Our bills are definitely lower now than when we had a boiler heating all rooms at once, but we certainly do feel a lot colder.

It’s not just the beginning of the poverty that really affects you. It’s when you’re years in and you can’t afford to buy the stocks of things like herbs or replace broken things. Or when the kids need new shoes again.

I lived in a house with no heating and outside loo until I was 11. I was then grindingly poor as a single parent in a min wage job on benefits with kids.

It’s you can’t get to the cheap shop because you can’t afford to get there.

Laugh at cut out sky. I never had it then to start with. Never got nails done. Used to skip meals so the kids could eat. Lots of black tea.

I’m ok now - but I know what it was like.

@lightand

I never get the heating or eating argument. There are many many things I would cut out before any of those. Less clothes, less grooming, cheaper tv package. The list goes on.

lots of people have already cut those out.