To bring up how unfair the 11+ is?

[Jaggerdagger]

I live in a notorious grammar school area in the south east (I'm sure you can guess which one!).

Reasons why I dislike the 11+:

1. Tutoring is an unfair advantage and can only be accessed for those that can afford it. How can the 11+ be accurately assessed if the majority are tutored and only a handful manage to pass the test without additional support?
2. If a child is tutored just to pass a test, it doesn't necessary mean that they will thrive in a grammar school. I'm a teacher and I've seen lots of pupils not coping well in the high pressured environment.
3. It's divisive and can make those children that don't get in feel that they are inferior. Feeling like a failure age 11 for something that could be totally avoidable if this system wasn't in place seems terribly sad to me.
4. Comprehensive schools in the area suffer in various ways because of grammar schools. For instance, more private schools are opened in the area due to parents wanting to pay for better facilities for their children that didn't get into grammar school.

I'm sure this has been discussed before on here but I think it's worth bringing it up once more for debate.

Aibu to think that this is an archaic and unfit system that should be either be abolished or drastically changed?

Do I think it’s fair? No
Would I have sent DD to a Grammar if we couldn’t afford Private and our local Comp was awful? Yes

@Hoppinggreen

Do I think it’s fair? No Would I have sent DD to a Grammar if we couldn’t afford Private and our local Comp was awful? Yes

Yep, and this is why the system is still firmly in place! I'm sure most parents feel the same way as you. You're just the pawns! I don't blame the parents, or your reasoning at all.

I loathe the grammar school system. All children should have excellent education. No children should be labelled failures at 11

I notice it even more because I grew up in a county that had no grammar or private schools nearby, and so everyone just went to their local comp. It wasn't perfect, but the opportunities were equal and some of the teaching was superb.

Yes it’s unfair.
No I don’t believe if you pass the 11+ you will struggle because you’ve been tutored. The concepts are still advanced. If that was the case then at GCSE everyone would get a 9.

A truly talented child won’t need tutoring but the bar has been raised through tuition of what is “truly talented”

I live in a grammar area (not sure it’s yours). I never touched a paper before I sat mine and we were poor so couldn’t afford tuition, I passed as did a lot of my friends. Of course some failed, but if you were capable you made it

My son attends a grammar school and I agree it’s very unfair on bright poor kids who cannot afford tutoring.

I agree with 1, 2 and 3. 4 is not true in my area.

I don't opt in to the grammar school ideology. I want my kids to feel a sense of achievement in school, not failure. Also, I got better GCSE results in my comprehensive than lots of the children from my year that went to the grammar (I know this because they published every individuals results in a booklet, and as my brother was at the school we received a copy).

There is tutoring and tutoring though. My daughter had a few sessions (4 or 5) to familiarise her with the format of the exam and giver her some exam techniques. No way would it have got her a high enough result to pass unless she had the ability. The cost was very affordable - I paid less for the hour sessions than I spent on her twice weekly swim sessions.

Completely disagree that "only a handful pass without tutoring". Not the case in my experience, though I don't have experience of the Kent system.

No tutoring here when I passed the 11+ 30 years ago. I benefitted hugely from my grammar school education and feel very grateful for it.
No system is perfect but grammars were designed to give opportunities to those from less well off backgrounds, which in lots of cases they do.

I'm already starting to worry what to do and my eldest is only 7! There is only one secondary school in my town, its a large comp and it's not got a great reputation. The alternative is to try to get into one of the grammars in the next big town / city, there's a choice of about 8. But they are some of the best in the country, 100% at gcse etc and I expect would be very pressured. It seems like a very abrupt kind of choice. Or move house of course, which is why this is even on my radar now. What I'd want really is a decent comp!

I’m so glad we aren’t in a grammar school area and would be very put off moving to an area that had this system.

We aren't in a grammar school area. Overall I disagree with private schools and grammar schools. All children should have access to the same education.

My DS2 has various learning difficulties so we made the decision for him to go to a private school that has a learning support unit. I put DS1 in also as I wanted them at the same place. Exam grade wise DS1 probably would do the same anywhere but there have been other aspects that are better. We felt we had no choice, the schools round here do not cater for children with any learning difficulties unless they are massively behind.

YANBU. It's a ridiculous and very unfair system which should be phased out.

Yes absolutely, totally unfair. I didn't grow up with it. My son passed it without tutoring, will see if he gets in.

My daughter goes to a comp and I'm sure the differences will be stark.

I used to write the 11+ (for a different borough), and I worked really hard to make sure that we matched what local primary schools were teaching, and did something different each year so students couldn’t be coached through.

Grammars are bad news for neighbouring schools, however: I agree with you, there.

My teacher friend told me tutoring is pretty much necessary because the test is early in yr6 but covers the full yr6 curriculum which of course they have not been taught yet.

I agree. It’s getting worse. When I moved to the area there was no tutoring adverts. I didn’t even know it was a grammar area and had no clue about what it entailed.

Suddenly 9 months before the 11+ the tutoring comments started and people had been tutoring since year 4! 6 months before it was upped to twice a week. During the summer holidays it was every day. How did I not know??
For one reason or another I had been privy to how the entire class were performing when dd sat hers. Not one of the top 5 got through the 11+. Where were these high flyers on that day. The ones that have gone to the questionable comp are now all in the top set. They aren’t wealthy and a few (like us) tutored for a few months before because that’s all they could afford, or didn’t at all.

Due to the tutoring the test is getting harder and harder so even more unattainable. The area I live in now has tutor adverts everywhere. It’s changed. However, incidentally fewer and fewer are taking the exam with more parents pulling them out because “it’s not for them” which is the whole ethos of the grammar system, it’s meant to be for everyone.

You’ve private schools tutoring for it as standard, wealthy parent tutoring for it. The questions are not something I’ve ever come across before. So the mumsnet “just sit with them and do the papers” is fine, if you can answer them.
So you either need to be wealthy to send them to private
Wealthy to tutor
Or knowledgable enough about the reasoning questions to teach them

I’m in a grammar area - Northern Ireland.

None of my 3 were tutored because I couldn’t afford it. They all passed and went on to university. Two are now in professional jobs and the youngest is in her 2nd year.

@Meatbadger

No tutoring here when I passed the 11+ 30 years ago. I benefitted hugely from my grammar school education and feel very grateful for it. No system is perfect but grammars were designed to give opportunities to those from less well off backgrounds, which in lots of cases they do.

Same here only it was over 50 years ago for me. Grammar schools were a vehicle for social mobility for so many of my contemporaries.

I grew up in a non grammar area and all the comprehensives were shit. The lack of choice (no local private schools either) meant complete apathy from all of them. It was a total race to the bottom.

At least where there is some competition for pupils, some effort is made.

So while I don't think the grammar system is doing what it set out to do, I do think something is better than nothing.

In my area, it's much more common for a child to have been tutored for the test than not to have been. Obviously I don't have exact figures but I am confident this is the case from talking to children and colleagues over the years.

And like others. They have been a vehicle for social mobility for my children. They will never (I hope) have to live the life I did. And for that I am and always will be grateful.

I'm sure we live in the same area. I'm going to say YABU because I'm biased. I got into a grammar school as a child from a working class family, with no extra tutoring.
I'm hoping my son will follow.