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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To have loitered around with my dog?

73 replies

ShittyFingers · 05/02/2022 08:49

I live in an area where everybody has a dog, especially since lockdown.

There is a large pedestrianised walk starting from the side of my house - large grass verges on either side, trees, open spaces, no roads etc. unfortunately this attracts irresponsible dog owners who let their dogs off lead with no recall “to play”.

It’s been mentioned on the neighbourhood Facebook group loads of times asking people not to let their dogs off lead unless they have brilliant recall as not all dogs want to be approached. It has got slightly better in the last few months.
Anyway, my dog is reactive and nervous so never off lead in public. What I do like to do with her is take her out in this area, give her a longer lead (about 7 foot) and just let her sniff around the grass taking me wherever she wants to go for the first half hour of our walk. This often involves us going back and forth over certain areas as she picks up interesting smells.

This morning a woman was walking up with a dachshund and asked if my dog was friendly. I said she wasn’t so she looked disappointed and said “oh, it’s just that my dogs likes to be off lead” so I replied lightly “I think most dogs like to be off lead! But unless their recall is 100% it isn’t safe”. So she said “oh my dog is fine, he’s very friendly and just likes to play”. So I said “well a lot of dogs don’t like to be approached” … at this point my dog is showing a bit too much interest in her dog so I start moving on but still just milling around, in no rush. She then says loudly to her child “well, that’s our walk ruined! No point if he can’t go off and play”. They then turn and start walking back in the direction they came from!

Was I in the wrong?? I didn’t make much effort to leave the area but why should I?

OP posts:
Gowithme · 05/02/2022 09:38

I think as your dog is the one that isn't properly socialised (which I realise might not be your fault) then you are the one who has to take all responsibility for it. No dog has perfect recall IMO and most if they saw a cat/squirrel/pheasant/rabbit would chase it, most things apart from maybe stupid pheasants would get away easily or get a nasty scratch. If they are friendly and don't jump up/behave badly then I think it's fine to be off lead - obviously if they have no recall then you wouldn't let them off as you'd never get them back. Other dogs will soon get the message from your dog that it doesn't want to play and if it's a possibility that it might bite then it should wear a muzzle anyway just in case. Other dogs should be able to go off lead and not be restricted because your dog isn't properly socialised IMO.

Gowithme · 05/02/2022 09:41

.....so I think if you're dog isn't sociable then you should move on if other dogs are in the area.

Iamkmackered1979 · 05/02/2022 09:43

Socialisation has bugger all to do with it,
If you cannot call your dog away from another dog it should not be off lead it’s basic recall. All dogs off lead should be able to do it so that dogs on lead for whatever reason can walk too or children etc can walk and your dog won’t run up to them or can be called away

EdithStourton · 05/02/2022 09:46

@Lazypuppy

It is frustrating when a dog owner who is keeping dog on lead stays in the area where i could let my dog off. Theres nkt many areas for that, whereas an on lead dog can be walked anywhere, so i think you were a little unreasonable to not carry on walking.
This. My dogs have decent recall (until they smell a deer, which we are working on). I can walk them close to me off-lead with an on-lead dog not too far away and they'll stay with me. And I agree that it's infuriating when you are giving off signals that you'd like your dog to be left alone and some idiot lets Bonzo the Labrador come bounding up - I've had that repeatedly when training my dogs off-lead, even when I've deliberately gone right away from the area that is the unofficial dog playground. So I'm as exasperated at clueless owners as anyone.

But I do think that if an area is an unofficial dog playground, I wouldn't go there with a dog that was on-lead due to injury, aggression or nervousness. I don't want to spoil other people's fun or their dogs' enjoyment. And IMHO letting dogs hang out together is good for their social skills if it's properly done and combined with recall etc training, so I don't want to get in the way of that, either.

Iamkmackered1979 · 05/02/2022 09:48

My dog wouldn’t do anything to your dog if it rain up to him whilst on lead but I don’t WANT some random dog to run up to us my dog is young and likes to play but whilst on lead you need to keep your dog under control it is basic manners not to allow your dog to run up to other dogs (on lead) people/kids my son likes dogs but doesn’t like them running up to him no matter how friendly the owner says they are. I think some people think their off lead dog can do what it likes

Snoken · 05/02/2022 09:49

I would argue that neither of you were wrong. You are both entitled to use the area for dog walking. I can see how it’s beneficial for your dog to be allowed to sniff in areas where a lot of dogs have been (great for mental stimulation), and I can also see how it would have been great for the other dog owner to have been able to let her dog run around and get some proper exercise.

I don’t think there is a dog on the planet who have 100% recall, they aren’t robots, but I do think that letting playful, non-aggressive dogs play together is a great way to keep them healthy and non-aggressive. I don’t agree with the sentiment that only if your dog never approaches other dogs can you let them off lead. They are pack animals that need interaction with other dogs too, not just humans. If you have let them interact with other dogs for the start they usually stay friendly, and they learn who to approach and who not to.

TheChip · 05/02/2022 09:50

You could have moved, but really, why should you?
Youre exercising your dog the way you want to, so why should you change your ways to suit someone else.

Her reaction was ridiculous though. I'd be glad I didn't move if i witnessed somebody react like that because I didn't do what they wanted. Temper tantrums be gone!

Chesneyhawkes1 · 05/02/2022 09:50

Personally I don't take my dog reactive dog to places where other dogs go to be off lead.

It's not fair on him, he gets stressed and it's not fair on the other dogs.

Yes it's the other owners job to recall their dogs away - but accidents happen.

We go off into the middle of nowhere for a quiet, stress free walk.

Lazypuppy · 05/02/2022 09:51

Clymene

If you can't trust your dog not to approach on lead dogs, it shouldn't be off lead.

Exactly. So i can't let me dog off as recall isn't quite 100%. But if someone who isn't going to let their dog off lead stays in an area where it is suitable for off lead dogs, its frustrating because i cant then let me dog off, but they could walk ther dog anywhere else on lead, but theres not many safe spacea can let me dog off lead

Original poster
ShittyFingers · 05/02/2022 09:54

@Snoken

I would argue that neither of you were wrong. You are both entitled to use the area for dog walking. I can see how it’s beneficial for your dog to be allowed to sniff in areas where a lot of dogs have been (great for mental stimulation), and I can also see how it would have been great for the other dog owner to have been able to let her dog run around and get some proper exercise.

I don’t think there is a dog on the planet who have 100% recall, they aren’t robots, but I do think that letting playful, non-aggressive dogs play together is a great way to keep them healthy and non-aggressive. I don’t agree with the sentiment that only if your dog never approaches other dogs can you let them off lead. They are pack animals that need interaction with other dogs too, not just humans. If you have let them interact with other dogs for the start they usually stay friendly, and they learn who to approach and who not to.

My dog was at puppy classes from 10 weeks old and heavily socialised 3 times a week from then on. She turned dog aggressive and reactive at 5 months old despite this. Unfortunately it’s in her breed lines. If I ever got another dog I’d never do puppy socialisation classes again, I’d work on focus and engagement whilst in the presence of other dogs rather than focussing on dog on dog play
OP posts:
Lazypuppy · 05/02/2022 09:54

....so I think if you're dog isn't sociable then you should move on if other dogs are in the area.

Personally I don't take my dog reactive dog to places where other dogs go to be off lead. It's not fair on him, he gets stressed and it's not fair on the other dogs.

I agree with both of these. You have every right to be there OP, but surely you can see why the other dog owner got frustrated.

villainousbroodmare · 05/02/2022 09:57

Friendly, easygoing, sociable dogs do approach each other though. It's natural and for most dogs it's enjoyable, and while on MN it is so often said that dogs should remain only with their owners and ignore every other thing, that's not real life.
I say the above as someone who abhors allowing one's dog to harass others or indulge in potentially upsetting or dangerous rough play.
If your dog is likely to be upset by any innocent friendly approach, then you should take her somewhere that she and you can enjoy your outing, and allow others who enjoy some playful interaction to do the same.

Liz1tummypain · 05/02/2022 10:00

If her dog could be recalled I don't know what the problem is. Unless there's a by-law to say dogs have to be on a lead, and it's considered safe in terms of barriers, fences and not close to a road, then I can't see why they need to be on a lead.

Onlyforcake · 05/02/2022 10:01

She could have waited until you left, you could consider more whether it's a suitable place for your dog.

Too much drama all around.

vivainsomnia · 05/02/2022 10:02

If she wants to let her dog off where it’s more safe to do so she can go find a dog park
And ere we go again. If that area doesn't specifically stipulates that dogs should be in the lead, then they don't have to be.

The very vast majority of dogs are good around other dogs and indeed enjoy saying hello. It's part of the fun. The owners are responsible to ensure their dog comes right back if approaching a reactive dog, but ow etc of reactive dogs are also responsible for informing the owner that their dog are so.

In this situation, it makes no sense why she decided to go back because she passed your reactive dog and other g bad happened, she should just have continued on her way unless you insisted all dogs should be on the lead.

pilates · 05/02/2022 10:02

If your dog is reactive I would have walked on to allow the other dog to have an off lead play.

Clymene · 05/02/2022 10:09

@Lazypuppy

Clymene

If you can't trust your dog not to approach on lead dogs, it shouldn't be off lead.

Exactly. So i can't let me dog off as recall isn't quite 100%. But if someone who isn't going to let their dog off lead stays in an area where it is suitable for off lead dogs, its frustrating because i cant then let me dog off, but they could walk ther dog anywhere else on lead, but theres not many safe spacea can let me dog off lead

So you need to work on your dog's recall then Confused

My dog is actually fine with most other dogs but he doesn't like it when other dogs bound over to him. So if he's off lead and there's a particularly boundy looking dog approaching, I put him back on lead. Generally the other owner does the same, we walk past one another, we take our dogs off lead again. All fine

In the OP's scenario, the other dog owner seemed to imply that her walk was about her dog socialising with other dogs. The OP's dog was just minding its own business.

The other person could have put her dog on a lead until they'd passed and then taken it off again, rather than flouncing

vivainsomnia · 05/02/2022 10:09

Too much drama all around
This. I really don't get it. I take my dog on the lead up to when we reach the park and she is off.

The etiquette here is: dogs passing each other on the lead say hello with both owners approaching gently. If one dog is reactive, the owner says so before the dogs get close to each other or move out of the way. No issues.

In the park, off lead dogs will sometimes approach on lead dogs. Usually carefully and slowly and will pick up the other dog isn't happy and will move on before getting close. Or the owner will warn. Usually off lead dog is then called and they move away right away.

It all takes place peacefully and with a smile because we're in it together as dog owners.

SartresSoul · 05/02/2022 10:10

I’m not a dog owner or lover and I just think all dogs should be kept on leads at all times. Some people are terrified of dogs and don’t want someone’s ‘friendly dog’ to run over to them.

Mindymomo · 05/02/2022 10:17

Since becoming a dog owner nearly 4 years ago, we’ve seen it all. The owners we come across are just as bad as playground mothers. At our secure dog park, it’s common courtesy that whatever dog is there first gets to do what they want, but new owners, of which there are so many here, seem to think it’s ok to let their dogs do anything they want.

Lazypuppy · 05/02/2022 10:17

Clymene

No dog has 100% recall, and i always put my dog on lead around other on lead dogs, there is usually a reason they are on lead.i wouldn't let him off even if his recall is brilliant as dogs like to greet other dogs.

Point is other dog waker couldn't just wait as OP said she wasn't leaving the area, so other dog walkers only choice was to leave. She wanted to let her dog off lead, asked OP who said her dog was reactive but thrn wouldn't leave so what else is the other dog walker supposed to do just stand there?

vivainsomnia · 05/02/2022 10:20

Socialisation has bugger all to do with it,
If you cannot call your dog away from another dog it should not be off lead it’s basic recall
It has all to do with it. Why should dogs who are friendly a d e joy each other's company be penalised for the very few who are not?

The only issue is a dog that approaches, insist on playing when the other dog is clearly unhappy, and the owner either ignores it or calls their dog and the dog ignores them.

But that's not a common scenario I encounter. Usually dogs will move towards another dog and as soon as that dog doesn't express willingness to interact they move on. Except for puppies who still need to learn.

ExecEA · 05/02/2022 10:25

I had the same thing happen to me today. My dog on a lead and muzzled he is a big ex-working disabled dog. The other owner had her dog off lead and threw a ball towards my dog.. I said your dog should be on a lead I was not rude and we cannot out run her dog she swore at me I like to keep my dog safe and other people and their little ones and all dogs can be unpredictable…very unpleasant

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 05/02/2022 10:25

You also don’t say to children “oh well that’s our walk ruined”! You try to make the best of things for them - no sense in the child being made to feel upset or anxious!

I agree dogs without brilliant recall shouldn’t be off lead in public. There are loads around here and it’s so irritating. Never mind other dogs not wanting to be approached - I don’t want to be and nor do lots of other humans. Some don’t even try to recall their dogs they just say “oh he’s friendly”, to which I say “I don’t want to be approached by dogs” in a completely unfriendly manner!

AlexissFreeenncch · 05/02/2022 10:27

I think you are being a bit unreasonable as you had a long lead so that’s a 7 foot radius in the area reserved for your dog and you said other dogs can’t approach her. How much space did that leave the others for their dog to walk even if on lead? We walk our dog in a similar space and it’s not suitable for a long lead. Also if our dog is on lead we walk him anywhere (for example along pavements) as he is safe on the lead. But we would only let him off lead in a safe area. As your dog was on lead you could’ve walked him anywhere - you didn’t have to but I don’t really see what difference it would make to your dogs exercise and enjoyment - he still gets to walk and to sniff.

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