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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think psych wards should be single-sex?

111 replies

UndertheCedartree · 04/02/2022 00:56

This is something I have thought about a lot. And am interested in others opinions and maybe what can be done about it?

I have spent time on 3 acute wards that were mixed-sex and also one long term ward that was women only (in fact the whole hospital was).

On all 3 of the wards men came onto me, while I was very vulnerable. On one occasion I started a relationship with a man on the ward. I was also touched inappropriately on many occasions. There was also aggression by men. I was obviously not thinking straight and would stand up to men who bullied/abused women. I was threatened on many occasions and actually punched once. This was just normal life on the ward. Looking back I feel I really wasn't safe guarded.

When I got to the women's hospital it was bliss! The general level of aggression (and aggressive swearing) was so much lower! Like a 1 compared to a 10. The type of abuse that happened all the time like inappropriate touching just did not happen. There were not people trying to come onto you all the time.

I just think psych wards should be single sex and preferably single sex hospitals! Because men can still target you when on leave if they are in the same hospital. What do you think?

OP posts:
heathspeedwell · 04/02/2022 12:54

Absolutely agree that all wards should be single sex. The Times newspaper reported that women are nine times more vulnerable to sexual assault in mixed-sex spaces.

Having single sex psych wards protects vulnerable men too.

I have a male relative who was sectioned a few years ago. While on the ward one of the nurses accused him of inappropriate sexual activity with another patient. Luckily witnesses confirmed that it was the female patient who initiated the relationship with him, but of course the nurse was right to be concerned because when people are that unwell neither of them can really consent.

My relative continued to date this woman for months after they left the hospital. Being in a co-dependent relationship exacerbated their mental health problems. They would both have recovered from their breakdowns far more quickly if the wards had been single sex.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 04/02/2022 13:03

@heathspeedwell

Absolutely agree that all wards should be single sex. The Times newspaper reported that women are nine times more vulnerable to sexual assault in mixed-sex spaces.

Having single sex psych wards protects vulnerable men too.

I have a male relative who was sectioned a few years ago. While on the ward one of the nurses accused him of inappropriate sexual activity with another patient. Luckily witnesses confirmed that it was the female patient who initiated the relationship with him, but of course the nurse was right to be concerned because when people are that unwell neither of them can really consent.

My relative continued to date this woman for months after they left the hospital. Being in a co-dependent relationship exacerbated their mental health problems. They would both have recovered from their breakdowns far more quickly if the wards had been single sex.

I completely agree with everything you say. The same happened to me and it was not a good relationship, unfortunately. When I look back I partly think they should have done more to prevent the relationship happening and also that there is only so much they can do if men and women are mixing. It is unfair to both parties as neither can consent.
OP posts:
shouldistop · 04/02/2022 13:05

Wards should be single sex definitely and I agree that men should not be staying on postnatal wards.

Teaforme123 · 04/02/2022 13:08

I know of a child who was conceived in a psychiatric unit...

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 04/02/2022 13:14

@Teaforme123

I know of a child who was conceived in a psychiatric unit...
Oh, I am sure there are many. As I say there is only so much the staff can do if men and women are mixing.
OP posts:
Irridescantshimmmer · 04/02/2022 13:20

Yeah I agree all wards should be single sex and especially for the reasons you described OP, I consider myself lucky, I have never been admitted to one and by the sounds of things looks like people may need help to recover from experiences on these wards, which sound horrendous.

Predatory males are abhorrant.

Deadringer · 04/02/2022 13:49

@MorningStarling

I'm clearly out of step with everyone else but I don't have a problem with wards being mixed sex. For one thing, it saves any argument over where trans people should be placed and a debate over who classes as trans enough to go in particular ward. But generally, aside from that, I don't believe it is natural to segregate men from women. Our natural behaviour is to mix.
Even though it is clear from this thread that that women are being raped and sexually assaulted in mixed wards? I suppose that's natural too? ffs.
writingonpaper · 04/02/2022 13:53

Tbh, I've seen similar threats in residential care. I've seen very frail elderly ladies beaten up by males in dementia care. The warning signs were there and ignored

I was thinking this too. Its a concern that no-one seems to be bothering with. I've heard from colleagues of cases where there are concerns that men in residential care are sexually exploiting women with dementia, as the women is not really capable of consent and is manipulated into thinking she is in a relationship with the man.

writingonpaper · 04/02/2022 13:57

@MorningStarling

I'm clearly out of step with everyone else but I don't have a problem with wards being mixed sex. For one thing, it saves any argument over where trans people should be placed and a debate over who classes as trans enough to go in particular ward. But generally, aside from that, I don't believe it is natural to segregate men from women. Our natural behaviour is to mix.
This post so clearly articulates how, despite the outlining of abuse on this thread, that gender ideologues believe that trans people need to be centred over women, not matter the cost to women, even at the cost of sexual abuse.

As to, its not natural to segregate, actually it is when women are vulnerable. That's why we created single sex spaces. As unfortunately, all history tells us that it is 'natural' (as in inevitable) that there are men who will physically and sexually attack women when they can.

Whatifitallgoesright · 04/02/2022 14:10

Baroness Emma Nicholson would like to hear of your experiences. She is discussing it today in House of Lords

twitter.com/Baroness_Nichol/status/1489561195883511811?s=20&t=7aalw7o8P1zyrQwraibBsQ

"David Blencathra’s and my Single Sex Ward Amendments are up for debate today - we are asking for a full and open analysis of why thé NHS prioritises on non medical grounds which is contrary to the eternal medical principle of health comes first. Cases of worse health or assault."

Porcupineintherough · 04/02/2022 14:17

YANBU most wards should be single sex (the exceptions being very specialist provision like ICU where patients are bed bound anyway)

5keletor · 04/02/2022 14:21

I also think all wards, apart from postnatal, should be single sex. Happy for men to be on postnatal and stay overnight as long as it's a partner/husband.

TwittleBee · 04/02/2022 14:22

I had to stay in a psych unit, mixed sex, and felt absolutely terrified of the men. They would be very explosively violent and often intimate women with their genitals or make suggestive moves.

I was fortunate that there was a seasoned woman who took me under her wing. Without her I don't want to think what could have happened

ClumpingBambooIsALie · 04/02/2022 14:31

@MorningStarling

I'm clearly out of step with everyone else but I don't have a problem with wards being mixed sex. For one thing, it saves any argument over where trans people should be placed and a debate over who classes as trans enough to go in particular ward. But generally, aside from that, I don't believe it is natural to segregate men from women. Our natural behaviour is to mix.
Have you actually stayed in a mixed acute psychiatric ward?
lobster2018 · 04/02/2022 14:58

I agree!
I spent a couple of weeks in a MH unit and it was mixed. One particular man wouldn't leave me alone! I rarely left my room because of it. It was awful and being there didn't help me at all because of it!

Lobster2018 · 04/02/2022 14:59

I should add my experience was 5 years ago.

ClumpingBambooIsALie · 04/02/2022 15:03

Maybe you have stayed in a mixed psychiatric ward, MorningStarling, and you've been lucky. But it's inherently unsafe. All of you are locked in together, whether sectioned or informal, with lots of different areas on the ward which might be out of the sight of staff, who are far too few in number to keep an eye on all of the patients all of the time anyway, and who the system incentivises to play down any issues between patients. There are men who, due to the nature of their psychiatric problem, are extremely behaviourally disinhibited, men who can't evaluate the consequences of their actions for other people, men who are experiencing hypersexuality, men who are terrified, paranoid, angry, unpredictable, etc. There are women experiencing those things too, of course, but they're less likely to be a threat to other women than men are. And of course there's no reason to think that men who are admitted to psych hospital are less likely than men in the general population to be the type of individual to take advantage of a vulnerable woman who can't escape and who lacks credibility, and sadly we know that those men do exist in the general population.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 04/02/2022 15:06

All MH nuts in my experience of working on them have always been and continue to be mixed sex

The reason they don't fall foul of the mixed sex accommodation rules is that the sleeping areas and bathrooms are single sex and it's only the communal areas that are mixed. We are strict on no males in female areas (including patients and visitors but not staff) on wards I have worked on. There are also female only and male only lounges in wards I have worked on.

It would require a lot more resources to have single sex wards because of loss of flexibility and given the lack of beds at present it seems a long way off

ClumpingBambooIsALie · 04/02/2022 15:10

Covoid you've worked on a lot of MH nuts have you GrinGrinGrin

Cloudsarebright · 04/02/2022 15:12

there are some instances where this is irrelevant.

Psych wards specialising in eating disorders couldn’t logistically be single sex because there are so few male patients. It doesn’t seem to be an issue in my experience anyway. Starved people don’t tend to really have sex drives.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 04/02/2022 18:07
Blush

That was a pretty bad typo!

ClumpingBambooIsALie · 04/02/2022 18:14
Grin

Don't worry Covoid, I've seen worse MH typos.

My psychologist once started an email to me with the phrase "Dead Clumping" (rather than "Dear"). We were in frequent email contact at the time because I was struggling a great deal with depression and suicidal thoughts. She was mortified when she realised, but I told her it was the first time I'd laughed in weeks…

CSIblonde · 04/02/2022 19:55

Single sex doesnt = safe . A close friend was on an all female psych ward a few years back. I was apalled that the male Nurse who was in charge most shifts openly flirted with her & used to put his arm round her waist & joke they were husband & wife. I didn't find it funny. He was obv attracted to her.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 04/02/2022 20:05

@Whatifitallgoesright

Baroness Emma Nicholson would like to hear of your experiences. She is discussing it today in House of Lords

twitter.com/Baroness_Nichol/status/1489561195883511811?s=20&t=7aalw7o8P1zyrQwraibBsQ

"David Blencathra’s and my Single Sex Ward Amendments are up for debate today - we are asking for a full and open analysis of why thé NHS prioritises on non medical grounds which is contrary to the eternal medical principle of health comes first. Cases of worse health or assault."

Thank you so much.
OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 04/02/2022 20:08

@TwittleBee

I had to stay in a psych unit, mixed sex, and felt absolutely terrified of the men. They would be very explosively violent and often intimate women with their genitals or make suggestive moves.

I was fortunate that there was a seasoned woman who took me under her wing. Without her I don't want to think what could have happened

I'm so sorry to hear that. I used to try and look after other women as much as I could.
OP posts: