To think psych wards should be single-sex?

[UndertheCedartree]

This is something I have thought about a lot. And am interested in others opinions and maybe what can be done about it?

I have spent time on 3 acute wards that were mixed-sex and also one long term ward that was women only (in fact the whole hospital was).

On all 3 of the wards men came onto me, while I was very vulnerable. On one occasion I started a relationship with a man on the ward. I was also touched inappropriately on many occasions. There was also aggression by men. I was obviously not thinking straight and would stand up to men who bullied/abused women. I was threatened on many occasions and actually punched once. This was just normal life on the ward. Looking back I feel I really wasn't safe guarded.

When I got to the women's hospital it was bliss! The general level of aggression (and aggressive swearing) was so much lower! Like a 1 compared to a 10. The type of abuse that happened all the time like inappropriate touching just did not happen. There were not people trying to come onto you all the time.

I just think psych wards should be single sex and preferably single sex hospitals! Because men can still target you when on leave if they are in the same hospital. What do you think?

What about PALS maybe they would be the people to tell about your shocking experience. I think all wards should be single sex.

Yes, all wards should be single sex. It's absolutely awful to have mixed-sex wards of any kinds. Of course women are going to be incredibly vulnerable.

I'm so sorry you experienced this, OP.

@Justilou1

Firstly, I’m truly, truly sorry this happened to you. I really hope that you write a report about this to PALS. You are correct that you were vulnerable, and it shouldn’t have happened.

I couldn’t agree more that the wards should be segregated, but I can see why they’re not. Unfortunately mental health is the worst-funded area in the western world. (And undoubtedly everywhere else too.) There simply aren’t enough MH places anywhere.

Historically speaking, every population has always had about the same percentage of people with MH issues requiring hospitalization. After WW1, a lot of money was invested in “Sanitoriums and Rest Homes” for acute patients and those who required less care but were not yet well enough to return home. There were “Halfway Houses, Hostels and Shelters” for those that remained homeless due to addiction, DV, etc, etc… Since then, most of these have been redeveloped and not replaced. There are very few private clinics and they are inhibitively expensive. At the same time, populations have expanded exponentially, increasing the number of people requiring these services as well. Everyone who works in MH knows that they are releasing patients when they are still very unwell, as the need for beds is so high.

Thank you, very interesting. I do not envy the psychiatrist the job of decided who to discharge to make room for more admissions. It is an impossible task when there are too few beds.

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7860747/More-1-000-patients-sexually-abused-mixed-sex-NHS-mental-health-wards-2-5-years.html

@Spidey66

I'm a mental health nurse.

Traditionally (ie maybe 50-100 years back) wards were single sex. When I started training they were mixed as this was seen as being more "normal". However since then there's been a drive for them to go back to being single sex, mainly because as you've experienced they're safer for women. In the Trust where I work (well the borough certainly, my Trust covers 4 London boroughs) they're all single sex.

I think in general wards while it's preferable for wards to be single sex, single sex bays are more acceptable. Many general wards have a speciality eg orthopedics so really its only maternity that you would expect a whole ward to be single sex. Most people stay in and around their bed space anyway, but in mental health wards you're encouraged to get up, eat together, and attend OT activities etc. Because of the nature of certain acute mental health issues e.g. aggression, sexual disinhibition etc it's safest imo if they're cared for sep9.

Yes, I agree. For me personally single sex bays are ok in a general hospital as long as there are separate toilets/showers etc. However, on a psychiatric ward it is completely different. Even if you avoid being around males by staying in your room/dorm or the women's lounge (which isolates you from the ward and you may not be allowed to if need to be kept an eye on), you still need to come out to eat and do OT, gym etc. Then there is leave which means even if wards are single sex, if the hospital is not you will still be coming into contact with unwell men who may have a lack of inhibitions and act in ways they wouldn't when well. I had a man who would keep kissing me on the lips while we were outside having our cigarettes. It horrifies me now but at the time I saw it as some desperately wanted attention/affection. I started by resisting him, laughing it off. But ended up going along with it and a lot happened that really shouldn't have and I know wouldn't have if I was not so unwell.

@Chobbers

I’ve recently stayed in a local hospital. There were some single bed rooms and single sex bays of 4 beds in each. There were male patients on the ward but I was completely unaware of them. This seemed an acceptable way of managing the varying number los of patients that need to be admitted.

I agree in a general hospital bays can work well. But not in a psych hospital.

www.nationalworld.com/health/nhs-england-slammed-for-relaxing-single-sex-hospital-rules-after-fines-for-breaches-were-quietly-dropped-3545517

I know Covid may have had an impact but safeguarding should still be the priority, especially as they have plenty of evidence of the dangers of mixed sex wards.

I assumed they already were! It's completely unnaceptable that they are not.

@x2boys - I think this is exactly why there are mixed sex wards. At my local psych hospital there is only one adult acute ward anyway. There are a number of bedrooms not in the male or female wing that could be used for either sex which creates flexibility. I get it from a operational perspective as I'm an adult nurse. But patient's needs should come above operational needs.

And without turning this into a thread about trans issues we also had a male on the female wing (where women's bedrooms were and the women's lounge) as he was identifying as a woman. This fluctuated though and at other times he identified as a man! This was our only place to get away if it was kicking off and then we had a male there too.

On an assessment unit I was on there was no women only spaces. There were separate bedrooms but all mixed and no en suites so we had to share bathrooms with men too. There was a man who would leave the door unlocked so women would walk in on him and he would walk around naked too. When you have suffered trauma at the hands of men as many women psych patients have it can be very triggering.

@TheViewFromTheCheapSeats

I agree, separate buildings ideally.

My sister has twice been inpatient and twice left in harmful relationships she wouldn’t otherwise enter, that disrupted her recovery for significant periods.

I agree with this so much.

The thing is on the ward there are rules around not touching/kissing etc (although it still happened) but once you are outside having a fag there is no protection at all.

@MorningStarling

I'm clearly out of step with everyone else but I don't have a problem with wards being mixed sex. For one thing, it saves any argument over where trans people should be placed and a debate over who classes as trans enough to go in particular ward. But generally, aside from that, I don't believe it is natural to segregate men from women. Our natural behaviour is to mix.

@MorningStarling Well, does it really in a psychiatric ward? Do you put a transwomen in the women's wing for their bedroom or the men's?

Have you been on a psychiatric ward? Yes, it may be natural to mix but is it 'natural' for the women to be frequently sexually assaulted? To be frequently verbally and physically assaulted? Is that really 'natural'?

@Supersee

There's no such thing as single sex now as men (and women but we're not hearing much from them) can decide to be whatever sex they like without question so 🤷‍♀️

The world has gone fucking mad.

Yes, that was an issue as I said above.

@KitBumbleB

My friend was sectioned and ended in an two inappropriate "relationships" because she was so ill. She was on a mixed sex ward. It was easier to have sex than it was to smoke.

It's awful this has happened to so many women.

@Etak123

I’m so sorry this happened to you x I spend lots of time in hospital and it’s always mixed wards but single sex bays. We no longer have a mental health ward at our local hospital but I know a few people who have been on it in the past. Unfortunately a young man I know very well was in there when he was also very vulnerable and ill and he was traumatised to say the least. It’s so hard to say because everyone who gets sectioned ( been very close many times in the past) is very ill and deserves individual sensitivite supportive care. They are not in control properly, therefore not responsible for their actions so it only makes sense to have single sex wards. Unfortunately with the 12 years of Tory austerity the health and social care budget and the nhs have taken so many cuts that they just can’t afford it. It’s not right and poor people like you are/have paid the price. The only thing we little people can do about any of it is vote, on mass, against the tories and talk to people, explain how they have destroyed our country and try to work together to get funding back where it’s needed x

I'm interested in your comment on social care cuts, because obviously services are not what they should be but funding has in real terms increased year on year. Those in the know where has been cut and where is the extra going? It is a disaster zone, I think everyone dreads getting ill enough to need hospital care.

www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

OP your experience was horrific, please lodge a complaint with PALs, and write to your MP. Women's safety is being eroded on all sides.

@Lockdownbear

Totally agree. I’ve got a large family and every postnatal stay was hell due to partners of women staying

Loud talking , loud eating, loud phone calls at 1/2/3 am. Tv or phone son loud watching stuff at ridiculous hours ….
Arguments …..

Men snoring and farting and finding the farting oh so hilarious

Having my curtains pulled back and being looked at

Having my curtains pulled back and my chair take as apparently I didn’t need it !

One night the man next to my cubicle decided to push his chair far back so it pushed my curtain and I was acutely aware his head was literally cm away from my bed separated by a thin curtain and he took up most of MY cubicle space

I couldn’t leave my baby to go for a shower as the ward was so busy

The men used the bathrooms so they were totally occupied 99% of the time with no just patients but their shitting/showering partners ….
It was HELL

@RedCandyApple

My ex was sectioned and he said that there was women there as well, it really surprised me as I thought they would be kept separate, he said he got into a fight with a man as he was starting on a woman in there.

It is really common for certain men to pick on the most vulnerable women. I hated this and would always stand up for them but would put myself in very dangerous situations as I was so disinhibited due to being mentally unwell. There were some men who were lovely and would look out for the women, though.

@Deadringer

Absolutely they should be single sex. My brother has a mental illness and has had a few stints in a psych ward, the last time he was in a young woman attached herself to him, she kept telling everyone she was his wife, in his mental state he believed her (his wife had died a few months before). As far as we know nothing happened between them but we really didn't think that staff did enough to keep them apart. That young woman was very vulnerable and needed protecting. God knows what goes on in some of those places, it's a disgrace that they are mixed sex.

I can relate to this too. A women thought one of the men was her boyfriend. He had done nothing to give this impression but she was unwell and it made her think that. She told her family they were moving in together etc and they made complaints as they thought the man was initiating it. She also gave him money which he would refuse but one time he was short for fags and accepted the money. He was unwell too so wasn't able to see this as inappropriate. Family complained. I stepped in and made sure the money was given back and told the woman to stop trying to give him money/leave him alone. She wasn't happy as she thought I was stealing her boyfriend, poor woman.

@Gowithme

What about PALS maybe they would be the people to tell about your shocking experience. I think all wards should be single sex.

Thank you. I really feel I need to speak about it/debrief. This was over 3 years ago and I haven't got over it.

@beastlyslumber

Yes, all wards should be single sex. It's absolutely awful to have mixed-sex wards of any kinds. Of course women are going to be incredibly vulnerable.

I'm so sorry you experienced this, OP.

Thank you

@Maddiemoosmum0203

I agree in principle they should be single sex I have been sectioned and on various wards/units I personally found the one mixed unit I was on was actually the calmest and I struggle with males due to past trauma maybe it was because it was private so more staff/activities etc The womens wards I have been on have been chaotic but much safer against the awful situations like you faced with OP I’m so Sorry you had to deal with that

Thank you

The women's hospital I was in was also private. I think you are right that higher staff ratios and more activities, definitely helps keep things calmer. I always thought the OTs in the NHS hospitals would love the budget of the OTs in the private hospital I was in.

[quote 334bu]www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7860747/More-1-000-patients-sexually-abused-mixed-sex-NHS-mental-health-wards-2-5-years.html[/quote]
Safeguarding was often raised but the assaults were never reported to the police. As far as I know there was no investigation. I was too unwell to raise this at the time. It was over 3 years ago now. But I want to know why it was allowed to happen now.

[quote JustOneCup]@Lockdownbear

Totally agree. I’ve got a large family and every postnatal stay was hell due to partners of women staying

Loud talking , loud eating, loud phone calls at 1/2/3 am. Tv or phone son loud watching stuff at ridiculous hours ….
Arguments …..

Men snoring and farting and finding the farting oh so hilarious

Having my curtains pulled back and being looked at

Having my curtains pulled back and my chair take as apparently I didn’t need it !

One night the man next to my cubicle decided to push his chair far back so it pushed my curtain and I was acutely aware his head was literally cm away from my bed separated by a thin curtain and he took up most of MY cubicle space

I couldn’t leave my baby to go for a shower as the ward was so busy

The men used the bathrooms so they were totally occupied 99% of the time with no just patients but their shitting/showering partners ….
It was HELL[/quote]
That sounds dreadful - I'm so sorry. I only stayed in with my eldest and back then the men could come for visiting hours only. It was fine - they still got to bond with their babies but gave time for women to rest/use showers/sleep at night.

@GiantHaystacks2021

That's Dickensian. Dreadful.

Worse than Dickensian by some margin. Woman and men were very strictly segregated in Victorian institutions, to the point of parents being separated from each other and their children in workhouses.